I've expressed before my theory that Nefrubity is probably the Daughter of Pharoh whom Solomon married, since the Pharaoh at the start of reign was Tuthmosis I. I'm not the only one to come to that conclusion.
Mainstream Egyptologists assume her vanishing from the Egyptian records means she died young.
Skeptics of The Bible see a problem here regardless of chronology, there is seemingly no documentation from Egyptian records of any Egyptian Princess ever being married to a foreign ruler. And they add to that absence of evidence as evidence of absence logic, Amenhotep II and Amenhotep III.
The king of the Mitanni had asked Amenhotep II for his daughter's hand in order to cement a political alliance. Amenhotep refused, offended by the suggestion that an Egyptian princess be submitted for that ridicule of being married off to a foreign leader.
There is a written account that the King of Babylon sent a princess to King Amenhotep III to marry and requested an Egyptian Princess be sent to Babylon to marry him. Amenhotep III turned down the request replying, "That since the days of old no Egyptian king’s daughter has been given to anyone."
It amazes how determined secular scholars are to discredit The Bible. Since clearly these two Amenhoteps were offended by the suggestion, they would not have been honest about it if there was any prior precedent for it. Politicians frequently lie about the history of their country.
In fact if Egypt during the later 18th Dynasty decided they fond the idea offensive, they probably would have sought to destroy all documentation of past examples. We know many cases in Egyptian history where trying to erase their past history was something they wanted to do, like the entire existence of Akhneton.
Egypt during the reign of Tuthmosis I was not in the same position as the reign of Amenhotep III or II, who were both post Tuthmosis III (Shishak). The early 18th Dynasty Pharaoh's were still trying to secure and establish Egypt's independence in the wake of throwing out the Hycsos/Amalekites. It was primarily under Hatshepsut and Tuthmosis III that Egypt regained their old Hegemony and became a World Superpower again.
So Tuthmosis I seeking such a move to secure an alliance with Solomon is perfectly plausible. But after Shishak's conquests the game changed, and now they only took and never gave.
At the very least, Nefrubity being married to a foreign leader and some later Pharaohs wanting to erase that fact is at least an equally likely explanation for her disappearance then that she just died but was seemingly never buried or mourned.
It is absurd to think Amenhotep III's stubbornness on this subject could be maintained at other times in history when Egypt didn't hold old the bargaining chips. And in conventional chronology, the time of Siamun was one such time, his dynasty was about to die.
As I read the Amarna exchange between Amenhotep III and Kadashman-Enlil (EA 1-5). Kadash seems quite incredulous of the absoluteness of Amenhotep's claim in EA#4. What really confused me however is, EA#2 has Kadash seemingly saying his wife was Amenhotep III's sister.
Showing posts with label Nefrubity. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Nefrubity. Show all posts
Friday, May 22, 2015
Friday, April 25, 2014
Hatshepsut was not the Queen of Sheba
This is my most unique quality as a supporter of the basic Velikovsky model starting with Tuthmosis III as Shishak. I seem to be the lone voice in the wilderness on this particular pairing of beliefs.
If the Queen of Sheba was an Egyptian queen The Bible wouldn't have obscured that, it dealt with Solomon's interactions with Egypt unambiguously both before and after this. Also since Tuthmosis I must be the Pharaoh who's daughter Solomon married (Nefrubity is my hunch on that), Hatshepsut was her full blooded Sister. If this Queen was Solomon's sister in law that is a strange thing to overlook.
Shishak is Tuthmosis III, his invasion of Retenu that corresponds to Shishak's taking Jerusalem was in the first year of his sole reign (21st year total). Which means over 5 years earlier when Jeroboam fled to Egypt was while Hatshepsut was still alive.
The visit of the Queen of Sheba I believe is meant to be understood as taking place very near the events of the previous chapter, 1 Kings 9. Which opens about 24 years into Solomon's 40 year reign. Which means timing wise it's either before Tuthmosis II died or very early in Hatshepsut's reign. The reigning Pharaoh of Egypt is mentioned in the prior chapter, it might seem the Kings narrative isn't consistent with this being no longer the same Pharaoh who's daughter Solomon married, but I don't think that's a big deal. The Biblical authors I think weren't always concerned with distinguishing different Pharaohs. But a Pharaoh of Egypt they always refereed to as Pharaoh.
Hatsheput like other Egyptian Queens ruled as if she were a man. And the term Pharaoh that the Bible uses actually refers to the Royal Palace, so it's like saying "The White House". So I really would not expect The Bible to refer to Hatsheput any differently then it would a male Pharaoh.
The Punt expedition was in Hatsheput's Eight year. So it's too late.
Jesus calls her the "Queen of The South" in Matthew 12:42 and Luke 11:31. Daniel 11 is cited where the "King of The South" is consistently Egypt. So this correlation is the start of attempts to argue she was an Egyptian queen.
South in Biblical geography is south of Israel/Jerusalem, in the context of Alexander's successors only Ptolemy is south of Israel, and Egypt was the core of his Kingdom though not all of it. But without that context South by no means always means Egypt, and usually refers to further south then that. In Jesus' time I'm inclined to think South of anything Rome ruled might have been the context. And Rome ruled Egypt at that time.
The word translated South in Daniel 11 (Negev) isn't the only Hebrew word used to communicate the idea of the South, there at least three others. Jesus I believe was actually speaking the above quote in Hebrew, but we have no idea if he used the same word. And I argued in one Bible study that it's used of Egypt there only when the Ptolemies ruled the Negev desert.
Another Hebrew word for South is Teman, which is interesting since Temani is also a name used of Yemenite Jews, not unlike Germanic Jews being Ashkenazim after Ahskenaz ben Gomer. In fact there is an argument to be made for the name Yemen itself coming from Teman/Teyman. Espically given the tendency of Hebrew naming to treat the Y/I/J and T as interchangeable, examples Yeshua/Teshua, Yerekh/Terekh, and Judas/Thadeus. And another word for South used in Yamen, derived from Yam.
Velikovsky unintentionally argued once that Mount Sinai was in Yemen. What's interesting about that is Habbukah 3:3 is a verse that parallels the reference to Seir and Sinai in Deuteronomy 33, that possibly justifies using Teman as a name for where Sinai is.
Then Josephus (Antiquities of The Jews Book 8 Chapter 6 Section 5) is cited. I'll address why I think Josephus was mistaken on this later. But the point here is that while Josephus is a good source for history near contemporary to himself, before the Hellenistic era he screws many things up (including the Persian King Esther married). The farther back he goes the more he's basing his Extra-Biblical information on legends of questionable reliability. In fact this very section of Josephus is totally absurd and he admits dependence on Herodotus. He acts like Pharaoh was an actual name the Pharaoh's used like Caesar.
There are three Shebas in the Table of Nations, Two in Genesis 10 and another being Abrahamic (of Keturah). The two in Genesis 10 are one Hamitic/Cushite and the other Semitic/Joktanite. But in both I Kings 10 and II Chronicles 11 the Queen of Sheba narrative is linked to Ophir another Joktanite name. I think Bill Cooper's biggest mistakes in After The Flood's appendices are in how he dealt with the repeat names.
Serious Archaeologists all know that Sheba was the name of a Kingdom in southern Arabia, modern Yemen. ( Israel Finkelstein, Neil Asher Silberman, David and Solomon: In Search of the Bible's Sacred Kings and the Roots of the Western Tradition p. 167).
Do not think that the Ancient Yemenite kingdom who's capital was Ma'rib is called Sheba only because of a desire to put that Biblical identification on it. They are known by that name independent of Biblical or Judeo-Christian influences.
Res Gestae Divi Augusti paragraph 26.5, (a funeral inscription of Augustus).
They were a seafaring people and were known to have had significant trade with the Northeast African kingdom of Dʿmt, across the Red Sea in Somalia, Eritrea, the only other source of both frankincense and myrrh. But the desire to use that African connection to make Axum or Nubia part of what's defined as Sheba is horribly flawed, those kingdoms were no where near those coastal lands.
The Yemen region was a place many Jews fled to following the fall of the Northern and Southern Kingdoms in the 8th-6th centuries BC. The Lemba tribe used to live in Yemen according to their oral history.
Very early on in Church History the Gospel came to this region. Among those who became Christians were the Ghassanids, who later migrated north and became a significant Arab-Christian Kingdom in roughly modern Jordan.
The famous Arabic proverb “They were scattered like the people of Saba” refers to them and other tribes of the Yemen region leaving after the destruction of the Ma'rib Dam.
The ancient Nubian city of Saba (which was later renamed Meroe during the time of Cambyses) I feel probably got that name not from a Sheba but from Cush's son Seba/Sebah. In English that name looks very similar to Sheba, and they could also transliterate into African languages similarly, but in Hebrew they begin with a different letter. Isaiah 43 refers to "Seba and Ethipoia" after mentioning Egypt, in a context where by Seba it could mean a city or region in Ethiopia. And Ethipoia/Cush linked to Egypt in this way always means the Nubian civilization just to the south of Egypt.
Seba and Sheba are mentioned next to each other in the Messianic Kingdom Psalm 72 verse 10. "The kings of Tarshish and of the isles shall bring presents: the kings of Sheba and Seba shall offer gifts." The point here I think is nations that Israel's contact with was by Sea bringing gifts to The Messiah. Tarshish and it's isles (British isles) to the west, and Seba and Sheba are both through the Red Sea port, in that context Yemen or India could work for Sheba while Seba is Nubia.
The Cushite Sheba of Genesis 10 I believe settled in Ancient India where he was deified as Shiva and his father Ramaah as Rama an avatar of Vishnu. Rama and his wife Sita had two sons just like Ramaah. One of those sons was named Kush. So the Indian mythology has confused the genealogy over the ages, but I believe that's where Ramaah and his sons went.
The Sheba and Dedan of Keturah I think probably lived in northern Saudi Arabia like the other Keturite tribes. They are probably the Sabeans who are mentioned in Job.
I do believe the Ark of the Covenant came to Ethiopia. But the Menelik legend is propaganda created by the Christian Auxomite kings to give them a Biblical lineage. I believe Graham Hancock and Bob Cornuke's theory for how it got there. First being at Elephantine island from sometime after King Manasseh's reign to the time of Cambyses, then was on Tana Kirkos until the Auxomite Kingdom took it. The Menilik legend was invented by the Auxomite Kings as propaganda do give them a Biblical;y significant Royal lineage (making them Davidic kings). The Jews of Ethiopia do not believe that story at all.
The Arabic traditions of Balqis/Bilqis/Bilquis did exist in Pre-Islamic times (Mohammed didn't really come up with much of anything new) and so have good reason to be viewed as more ancient and valid then the purely invented Ethiopian legend. However the details of the Bilqis legend as presented in the Koran and other surviving Arabic sources do not seem credible. I would not bet on that actually being her original real name. But if I wrote any fiction based on this I'd probably use something like it.
I do believe Hatshepsut probably visited Solomon also. The Bible says many rulers came to visit Solomon and witness his Wisdom. The Queen of Sheba is singled out NOT because she's the most important by secular standards, but because she became a Saved individual. Which is why Jesus cited her as such alongside the "men of Nineveh" who believed the message of Jonah.
That's the biggest problem to me actually, Hatshepsut was a faithful worshiper of the Egyptian gods to the end, no evidence she responded to Solomon how the Queen of Sheba did.
Actually, back to Psalm 72. It's also called a Psalm of Solomon, because Solomon foreshadowed the Messianic Kingdom. So the Sheba and Sebah reference could show both Ethiopia and Sheba had rulers visit Solomon, but they were distinct from each other.
Strictly speaking, what we call the Nubian civilization was kind of born around 800 BC. During the Old and Middle Kingdom as well as early 18th Dynasty, the civilization in that region was Kerma. During the reign of Tuthmosis I Kerma was conquered by Egypt, and campaigns further south were carried out during the reign of Hatshepsut. So yes, the logic for saying Hatshepsut could be called a Queen of Ethiopia is justifiable.
I don't think the similarity between Make-Ra (A name of Hatshepsut) and Makeda (The name of the Queen of Sheba in the Ethiopian traditions) is entirely a coincidence. I think various Egyptian Jews, first at Elephantine and then later in Alexandria and the Onias colony (and maybe much later Coptic Christians), drew the same conclusion Velikovsky thinks they did, and began giving The Queen of Sheba that name (adjusting it to remove the pagan god). And this may have influenced Josephus who was very familiar with Alexandrian Jewish traditions.
I can't make up my mind if I feel the Punt expedition was her visit to Solomon. The arguments for it being synonymous with or part of Retenu (the Egyptian name for Canaan) are valid, but so are plenty of arguments for it being in the South. Maybe there was more then one land called Punt and "God's Land", after all the Egyptians believed in more then one god. Maybe even her specific Punt expedition was to more then one place.
The fact that Parahu and Ati (of the Punt expedition) are often refereed to as King and Queen is based on creative assumptions. Breasted translated Parahu's title as "Chief" and refereed to Ati only as his wife.
Velikovsky saw Parahu as being Paruah father of Jehosophat governor of Issachar from 1 Kings 4:17. Numbers 26:23 dealing with the offspring of Issachar says "Of the sons of Issachar after their families: of Tola, the family of the Tolaites: of Pua, the family of the Punites:" So maybe the Punite clan has something to do with where the name Punt came from.
But there are also Pre-Islamic Arabian legends that say the Sheba kingdom of Yemen once had a ruler named Phar’an or "Pharaoh" who annexed Ophir and Havilah. But after that King Sheba was ruled only by Women.
Genesis 10:30 referring to the sons of Joktan including Sheba, Ophir and Havilah settling near a mountain called Sephar. That mountain is Mount Zafar in the heart of Yemen, where the Capital of the Himyarite kingdom was. Also the Kingdom of Hadramaut came from Joktan's son Hazarmaveth.
The idea of Punt being the same as Sheba is suggested in Nicholas Clapp's book about Sheba.
Tuthmosis III had three mysteries foreign wives. Menhet, Menqi and Merti. All three seem to have been Semitic. Two are said to be West Semitic, the idea that they could be daughters of Solomon or Rehoboam or Jeroboam I find interesting. I have also read it suggested that one could have been from Sheba, and thus used to support the idea of Punt being Sheba.
Also, while this is mostly irrelevant to the actual study here. I feel like saying that I also disapprove of the desire to interpret Solomon and Sheba as Romantically and/or Sexually involved with each other. The Bible gives no hints of that, the fact that it nearly universally happens in Extra-Biblical expansions just speaks the problems society has with gender relations.
Update: A follow up I did about the Magi.
If the Queen of Sheba was an Egyptian queen The Bible wouldn't have obscured that, it dealt with Solomon's interactions with Egypt unambiguously both before and after this. Also since Tuthmosis I must be the Pharaoh who's daughter Solomon married (Nefrubity is my hunch on that), Hatshepsut was her full blooded Sister. If this Queen was Solomon's sister in law that is a strange thing to overlook.
Shishak is Tuthmosis III, his invasion of Retenu that corresponds to Shishak's taking Jerusalem was in the first year of his sole reign (21st year total). Which means over 5 years earlier when Jeroboam fled to Egypt was while Hatshepsut was still alive.
The visit of the Queen of Sheba I believe is meant to be understood as taking place very near the events of the previous chapter, 1 Kings 9. Which opens about 24 years into Solomon's 40 year reign. Which means timing wise it's either before Tuthmosis II died or very early in Hatshepsut's reign. The reigning Pharaoh of Egypt is mentioned in the prior chapter, it might seem the Kings narrative isn't consistent with this being no longer the same Pharaoh who's daughter Solomon married, but I don't think that's a big deal. The Biblical authors I think weren't always concerned with distinguishing different Pharaohs. But a Pharaoh of Egypt they always refereed to as Pharaoh.
Hatsheput like other Egyptian Queens ruled as if she were a man. And the term Pharaoh that the Bible uses actually refers to the Royal Palace, so it's like saying "The White House". So I really would not expect The Bible to refer to Hatsheput any differently then it would a male Pharaoh.
The Punt expedition was in Hatsheput's Eight year. So it's too late.
Jesus calls her the "Queen of The South" in Matthew 12:42 and Luke 11:31. Daniel 11 is cited where the "King of The South" is consistently Egypt. So this correlation is the start of attempts to argue she was an Egyptian queen.
South in Biblical geography is south of Israel/Jerusalem, in the context of Alexander's successors only Ptolemy is south of Israel, and Egypt was the core of his Kingdom though not all of it. But without that context South by no means always means Egypt, and usually refers to further south then that. In Jesus' time I'm inclined to think South of anything Rome ruled might have been the context. And Rome ruled Egypt at that time.
The word translated South in Daniel 11 (Negev) isn't the only Hebrew word used to communicate the idea of the South, there at least three others. Jesus I believe was actually speaking the above quote in Hebrew, but we have no idea if he used the same word. And I argued in one Bible study that it's used of Egypt there only when the Ptolemies ruled the Negev desert.
Another Hebrew word for South is Teman, which is interesting since Temani is also a name used of Yemenite Jews, not unlike Germanic Jews being Ashkenazim after Ahskenaz ben Gomer. In fact there is an argument to be made for the name Yemen itself coming from Teman/Teyman. Espically given the tendency of Hebrew naming to treat the Y/I/J and T as interchangeable, examples Yeshua/Teshua, Yerekh/Terekh, and Judas/Thadeus. And another word for South used in Yamen, derived from Yam.
Velikovsky unintentionally argued once that Mount Sinai was in Yemen. What's interesting about that is Habbukah 3:3 is a verse that parallels the reference to Seir and Sinai in Deuteronomy 33, that possibly justifies using Teman as a name for where Sinai is.
Then Josephus (Antiquities of The Jews Book 8 Chapter 6 Section 5) is cited. I'll address why I think Josephus was mistaken on this later. But the point here is that while Josephus is a good source for history near contemporary to himself, before the Hellenistic era he screws many things up (including the Persian King Esther married). The farther back he goes the more he's basing his Extra-Biblical information on legends of questionable reliability. In fact this very section of Josephus is totally absurd and he admits dependence on Herodotus. He acts like Pharaoh was an actual name the Pharaoh's used like Caesar.
There are three Shebas in the Table of Nations, Two in Genesis 10 and another being Abrahamic (of Keturah). The two in Genesis 10 are one Hamitic/Cushite and the other Semitic/Joktanite. But in both I Kings 10 and II Chronicles 11 the Queen of Sheba narrative is linked to Ophir another Joktanite name. I think Bill Cooper's biggest mistakes in After The Flood's appendices are in how he dealt with the repeat names.
Serious Archaeologists all know that Sheba was the name of a Kingdom in southern Arabia, modern Yemen. ( Israel Finkelstein, Neil Asher Silberman, David and Solomon: In Search of the Bible's Sacred Kings and the Roots of the Western Tradition p. 167).
Do not think that the Ancient Yemenite kingdom who's capital was Ma'rib is called Sheba only because of a desire to put that Biblical identification on it. They are known by that name independent of Biblical or Judeo-Christian influences.
Res Gestae Divi Augusti paragraph 26.5, (a funeral inscription of Augustus).
"By my command and under my auspices two armies were led at about the same time into Ethiopia and into Arabia, which is called the Blessed [?]. Great forces of each enemy people were slain in battle and several towns captured. In Ethiopia the advance reached the town of Nabata, which is close to Meroe; in Arabia the army penetrated as far as the territory of the Sabaeans and the town of Ma'rib."This reference could interestingly make Ma'rib as far South as Roman armies ever went.
They were a seafaring people and were known to have had significant trade with the Northeast African kingdom of Dʿmt, across the Red Sea in Somalia, Eritrea, the only other source of both frankincense and myrrh. But the desire to use that African connection to make Axum or Nubia part of what's defined as Sheba is horribly flawed, those kingdoms were no where near those coastal lands.
The Yemen region was a place many Jews fled to following the fall of the Northern and Southern Kingdoms in the 8th-6th centuries BC. The Lemba tribe used to live in Yemen according to their oral history.
Very early on in Church History the Gospel came to this region. Among those who became Christians were the Ghassanids, who later migrated north and became a significant Arab-Christian Kingdom in roughly modern Jordan.
The famous Arabic proverb “They were scattered like the people of Saba” refers to them and other tribes of the Yemen region leaving after the destruction of the Ma'rib Dam.
The ancient Nubian city of Saba (which was later renamed Meroe during the time of Cambyses) I feel probably got that name not from a Sheba but from Cush's son Seba/Sebah. In English that name looks very similar to Sheba, and they could also transliterate into African languages similarly, but in Hebrew they begin with a different letter. Isaiah 43 refers to "Seba and Ethipoia" after mentioning Egypt, in a context where by Seba it could mean a city or region in Ethiopia. And Ethipoia/Cush linked to Egypt in this way always means the Nubian civilization just to the south of Egypt.
Seba and Sheba are mentioned next to each other in the Messianic Kingdom Psalm 72 verse 10. "The kings of Tarshish and of the isles shall bring presents: the kings of Sheba and Seba shall offer gifts." The point here I think is nations that Israel's contact with was by Sea bringing gifts to The Messiah. Tarshish and it's isles (British isles) to the west, and Seba and Sheba are both through the Red Sea port, in that context Yemen or India could work for Sheba while Seba is Nubia.
The Cushite Sheba of Genesis 10 I believe settled in Ancient India where he was deified as Shiva and his father Ramaah as Rama an avatar of Vishnu. Rama and his wife Sita had two sons just like Ramaah. One of those sons was named Kush. So the Indian mythology has confused the genealogy over the ages, but I believe that's where Ramaah and his sons went.
The Sheba and Dedan of Keturah I think probably lived in northern Saudi Arabia like the other Keturite tribes. They are probably the Sabeans who are mentioned in Job.
I do believe the Ark of the Covenant came to Ethiopia. But the Menelik legend is propaganda created by the Christian Auxomite kings to give them a Biblical lineage. I believe Graham Hancock and Bob Cornuke's theory for how it got there. First being at Elephantine island from sometime after King Manasseh's reign to the time of Cambyses, then was on Tana Kirkos until the Auxomite Kingdom took it. The Menilik legend was invented by the Auxomite Kings as propaganda do give them a Biblical;y significant Royal lineage (making them Davidic kings). The Jews of Ethiopia do not believe that story at all.
The Arabic traditions of Balqis/Bilqis/Bilquis did exist in Pre-Islamic times (Mohammed didn't really come up with much of anything new) and so have good reason to be viewed as more ancient and valid then the purely invented Ethiopian legend. However the details of the Bilqis legend as presented in the Koran and other surviving Arabic sources do not seem credible. I would not bet on that actually being her original real name. But if I wrote any fiction based on this I'd probably use something like it.
I do believe Hatshepsut probably visited Solomon also. The Bible says many rulers came to visit Solomon and witness his Wisdom. The Queen of Sheba is singled out NOT because she's the most important by secular standards, but because she became a Saved individual. Which is why Jesus cited her as such alongside the "men of Nineveh" who believed the message of Jonah.
That's the biggest problem to me actually, Hatshepsut was a faithful worshiper of the Egyptian gods to the end, no evidence she responded to Solomon how the Queen of Sheba did.
Actually, back to Psalm 72. It's also called a Psalm of Solomon, because Solomon foreshadowed the Messianic Kingdom. So the Sheba and Sebah reference could show both Ethiopia and Sheba had rulers visit Solomon, but they were distinct from each other.
Strictly speaking, what we call the Nubian civilization was kind of born around 800 BC. During the Old and Middle Kingdom as well as early 18th Dynasty, the civilization in that region was Kerma. During the reign of Tuthmosis I Kerma was conquered by Egypt, and campaigns further south were carried out during the reign of Hatshepsut. So yes, the logic for saying Hatshepsut could be called a Queen of Ethiopia is justifiable.
I don't think the similarity between Make-Ra (A name of Hatshepsut) and Makeda (The name of the Queen of Sheba in the Ethiopian traditions) is entirely a coincidence. I think various Egyptian Jews, first at Elephantine and then later in Alexandria and the Onias colony (and maybe much later Coptic Christians), drew the same conclusion Velikovsky thinks they did, and began giving The Queen of Sheba that name (adjusting it to remove the pagan god). And this may have influenced Josephus who was very familiar with Alexandrian Jewish traditions.
I can't make up my mind if I feel the Punt expedition was her visit to Solomon. The arguments for it being synonymous with or part of Retenu (the Egyptian name for Canaan) are valid, but so are plenty of arguments for it being in the South. Maybe there was more then one land called Punt and "God's Land", after all the Egyptians believed in more then one god. Maybe even her specific Punt expedition was to more then one place.
The fact that Parahu and Ati (of the Punt expedition) are often refereed to as King and Queen is based on creative assumptions. Breasted translated Parahu's title as "Chief" and refereed to Ati only as his wife.
Velikovsky saw Parahu as being Paruah father of Jehosophat governor of Issachar from 1 Kings 4:17. Numbers 26:23 dealing with the offspring of Issachar says "Of the sons of Issachar after their families: of Tola, the family of the Tolaites: of Pua, the family of the Punites:" So maybe the Punite clan has something to do with where the name Punt came from.
But there are also Pre-Islamic Arabian legends that say the Sheba kingdom of Yemen once had a ruler named Phar’an or "Pharaoh" who annexed Ophir and Havilah. But after that King Sheba was ruled only by Women.
Genesis 10:30 referring to the sons of Joktan including Sheba, Ophir and Havilah settling near a mountain called Sephar. That mountain is Mount Zafar in the heart of Yemen, where the Capital of the Himyarite kingdom was. Also the Kingdom of Hadramaut came from Joktan's son Hazarmaveth.
The idea of Punt being the same as Sheba is suggested in Nicholas Clapp's book about Sheba.
Tuthmosis III had three mysteries foreign wives. Menhet, Menqi and Merti. All three seem to have been Semitic. Two are said to be West Semitic, the idea that they could be daughters of Solomon or Rehoboam or Jeroboam I find interesting. I have also read it suggested that one could have been from Sheba, and thus used to support the idea of Punt being Sheba.
Also, while this is mostly irrelevant to the actual study here. I feel like saying that I also disapprove of the desire to interpret Solomon and Sheba as Romantically and/or Sexually involved with each other. The Bible gives no hints of that, the fact that it nearly universally happens in Extra-Biblical expansions just speaks the problems society has with gender relations.
Update: A follow up I did about the Magi.
Friday, March 21, 2014
On Shishak and Agag
Shoshenk's City List
Shoshenk I campaign into Palestine: His city list is an imitation of that of Thutmoses III but very instructive. The first 9 names are the `Nine Bows', #10 is the introduction saying simply "List of the towns". They are: 11=Gaza, 12=Makkedah, 13=Rubuti, 14=Aijalon, 15=Kiriathaim?, 16=Beth- horon, 17=Gibeon, 18=Mahanaim, 19=Shaud[y], 20=?, 21=Adoraim, 22=Hapharaim, 23=Rehob, 24=Betshan, 25= Shunem, 26=Taanach, 27=Megiddo, 28=Adar, 29=Yadhamelek, 30=[Heb]el?, 31=Honim?, 32=Aruna, 33=Borim, 34=Gathpadalla, 35=Yahma, 36=Betharuma, 37=Kekry, 38=Socoh, 39=Bethappuah... Between #17 & 18 should be Jerusalem by sequence if that is where he went according to conventional history, 1.Kings 14:25-26 & 2.Chronicles 12:2-9. In fact he went no where near there.
Kadesh comes from Qdsh, the Hebrew word for Holy, it applied to many cities in the region, to assume Egyptian records always meant the same one is naive, The Bible repeatedly refers to Jerusalem as Holy.
While the "n" is sometimes dropped from Shoshenk, it never is in inscriptions recognizing him from this region.
It is well known that the later Egyptian pharaohs had as many as five names. Now Birch has noted in this regard that "... the (Golden) Horus names of Thutmose III comprise variations on: Tcheser-khau, Djeser-khau, Cheser-khau, (Sheser-khau?);" names that come very close indeed to "Shishak" (Hebr. qwaOwi) according to Birch. Nor do these names have the problem of the presence of the letter "n" as found greatly complicating discussions on the name Shoshenq's appropriateness for "Shishak". Regarding the succession of consonants - considered much more important than the changeable vowels in ancient names - we get for Sheser-kau the pattern, Sh-S-K, corresponding almost exactly to Sh-Sh-K, and more suitable than Shoshenq (Sh-Sh-N-K). And since an R is dropped in getting Ozymandias from the Throne Name of Ramses II I see no reason to make that an objection here.
As far as whether or not that's a normal name for a foreigner to call that pharaoh by, again the Bible is often abnormal, Shishak works well as a Hebrew pun, for example it's similar to Jeramiah's code for Babylon.
Among the Treasures looted from Tuthmosis's campaign are many matching relics of Solomon's Temple including the Menorah.
http://www.specialtyinterests.net/karnak_loot_english.html
There are a lot of ideas on this site I like. But plenty that annoy me, like Hatshepsut as Sheba but especially Solomon as Senenmut.
In the textbooks, that equate Sosenk I with the biblical Shishak, it is pharaoh Osorkon IV - or his (Nubian) general (un-named) - who is usually regarded as "Zerah the Ethiopian" who, in c.897 BC, attacked king Asa of Jerusalem with a massive army of Ethiopians and Libyans, but was soundly defeated by the Jewish king (2 Chronicles 14:9-15). Velikovsky had synchronized this biblical incident with the reign of the belligerent Amenhotep II (son of Thutmose III, Velikovsky's "Shishak") whom he equated with Zerah. Whilst I completely accept Velikovsky's dating here, I believe that his attempts to 'prove' that pharaoh Amenhotep II had Ethiopian blood flowing in his veins was not quite convincing.
Nor does the Bible say that Zerah was even a pharaoh; nor that he led native Egyptian troops. I, for my part, prefer to equate Zerah with Amenhotep's old friend, User-tatet, Nubian (Ethiopian) commander. I do not think that it is stretching the imagination too far to believe that Semites - who in the EA letters called Akhnaton, Naphuria, from his coronation name, Nepher-kheperura - could have turned User into Zerah. Moreover, we know from the Egyptian records that User-tatet did campaign in the vicinity of Maresha, in the Shephelah plain of Israel (given in the Egyptian records as Retenu - and distinguished from Upper Retenu, or the hill country). The Egyptian records, as it is thought, are not going to record any military defeat.
Now that I've synchronized Tuthmosis III's Kadesh campaign with the 5th year of Rehoboam, lining up Biblical dates with 18th Dynasty dates we get the final overthrow of the Hycsos in the same year the Amalekites attacks Ziklag and David became king. And the overthrow of Apepi is about 10-11 years before that, which is only a year or to before when Saul was sent to war against Agag.
I agree with Ages in Chaos about Agag being Apepi,
Shoshenk I campaign into Palestine: His city list is an imitation of that of Thutmoses III but very instructive. The first 9 names are the `Nine Bows', #10 is the introduction saying simply "List of the towns". They are: 11=Gaza, 12=Makkedah, 13=Rubuti, 14=Aijalon, 15=Kiriathaim?, 16=Beth- horon, 17=Gibeon, 18=Mahanaim, 19=Shaud[y], 20=?, 21=Adoraim, 22=Hapharaim, 23=Rehob, 24=Betshan, 25= Shunem, 26=Taanach, 27=Megiddo, 28=Adar, 29=Yadhamelek, 30=[Heb]el?, 31=Honim?, 32=Aruna, 33=Borim, 34=Gathpadalla, 35=Yahma, 36=Betharuma, 37=Kekry, 38=Socoh, 39=Bethappuah... Between #17 & 18 should be Jerusalem by sequence if that is where he went according to conventional history, 1.Kings 14:25-26 & 2.Chronicles 12:2-9. In fact he went no where near there.
Kadesh comes from Qdsh, the Hebrew word for Holy, it applied to many cities in the region, to assume Egyptian records always meant the same one is naive, The Bible repeatedly refers to Jerusalem as Holy.
While the "n" is sometimes dropped from Shoshenk, it never is in inscriptions recognizing him from this region.
It is well known that the later Egyptian pharaohs had as many as five names. Now Birch has noted in this regard that "... the (Golden) Horus names of Thutmose III comprise variations on: Tcheser-khau, Djeser-khau, Cheser-khau, (Sheser-khau?);" names that come very close indeed to "Shishak" (Hebr. qwaOwi) according to Birch. Nor do these names have the problem of the presence of the letter "n" as found greatly complicating discussions on the name Shoshenq's appropriateness for "Shishak". Regarding the succession of consonants - considered much more important than the changeable vowels in ancient names - we get for Sheser-kau the pattern, Sh-S-K, corresponding almost exactly to Sh-Sh-K, and more suitable than Shoshenq (Sh-Sh-N-K). And since an R is dropped in getting Ozymandias from the Throne Name of Ramses II I see no reason to make that an objection here.
As far as whether or not that's a normal name for a foreigner to call that pharaoh by, again the Bible is often abnormal, Shishak works well as a Hebrew pun, for example it's similar to Jeramiah's code for Babylon.
Among the Treasures looted from Tuthmosis's campaign are many matching relics of Solomon's Temple including the Menorah.
http://www.specialtyinterests.net/karnak_loot_english.html
There are a lot of ideas on this site I like. But plenty that annoy me, like Hatshepsut as Sheba but especially Solomon as Senenmut.
In the textbooks, that equate Sosenk I with the biblical Shishak, it is pharaoh Osorkon IV - or his (Nubian) general (un-named) - who is usually regarded as "Zerah the Ethiopian" who, in c.897 BC, attacked king Asa of Jerusalem with a massive army of Ethiopians and Libyans, but was soundly defeated by the Jewish king (2 Chronicles 14:9-15). Velikovsky had synchronized this biblical incident with the reign of the belligerent Amenhotep II (son of Thutmose III, Velikovsky's "Shishak") whom he equated with Zerah. Whilst I completely accept Velikovsky's dating here, I believe that his attempts to 'prove' that pharaoh Amenhotep II had Ethiopian blood flowing in his veins was not quite convincing.
Nor does the Bible say that Zerah was even a pharaoh; nor that he led native Egyptian troops. I, for my part, prefer to equate Zerah with Amenhotep's old friend, User-tatet, Nubian (Ethiopian) commander. I do not think that it is stretching the imagination too far to believe that Semites - who in the EA letters called Akhnaton, Naphuria, from his coronation name, Nepher-kheperura - could have turned User into Zerah. Moreover, we know from the Egyptian records that User-tatet did campaign in the vicinity of Maresha, in the Shephelah plain of Israel (given in the Egyptian records as Retenu - and distinguished from Upper Retenu, or the hill country). The Egyptian records, as it is thought, are not going to record any military defeat.
Now that I've synchronized Tuthmosis III's Kadesh campaign with the 5th year of Rehoboam, lining up Biblical dates with 18th Dynasty dates we get the final overthrow of the Hycsos in the same year the Amalekites attacks Ziklag and David became king. And the overthrow of Apepi is about 10-11 years before that, which is only a year or to before when Saul was sent to war against Agag.
I agree with Ages in Chaos about Agag being Apepi,
The early Hebrew written signs as they are preserved on the STELE OF MESHA show a striking resemblance BETWEEN THE LETTERS G (GIMEL) AND P (PEI). NO OTHER LETTERS are so much alike in shape as these: each is an oblique line connected to a shorter, more oblique line, and is similar to the written number 7, THE SIZE. OF THE ANGLE BETWEEN THE TWO OBLIQUE LINES CONSTITUTES THE ONLY DIFFERENCE.
Nevertheless, it seems that not the Hebrew reading but rather the EGYPTIAN MUST BE CORRECTED....Almost EVERY hieroglyphic consonant [Egyptian] stands for MORE THAN ONE SOUND, and only empirically are all the sounds symbolized by a consonant found.
but
I don't agree with how this is presented in many other theories were
Saul's war with him is the same battle as when the Thebans overthrew
him.
Apepi seems to have been a usurper to begin with.
Apepi seems to have been a usurper to begin with.
Apepi is thought to have usurped the throne of northern Egypt after the death of his predecessor, Khyan, since the latter had designated his son, Yanassi, to be his successor on the throne as a foreign ruler.
Ryholt, p.256
Who knows maybe neither his predecessor or successor where even Amalekites but of other Hyksos tribes.
Velikovsky and others are wrong in citing Genesis 14 as proving the Amalekites existed already before Esau/Edom. The reference to them there is an editorial gloss from Moses, telling his reader where on the Geography their familiar with he's referring to. Like how we after say "near modern _____".
So when it was his tyrannical behavior, particularly killing Seqenenre Tao, sparked the Theban revolution, I suspect the other Hyksos leaders overthrew him with a coup and banished him. He then with whatever supporters he had (mainly the fellow Amalekites) and set himself up a new home base in southern Israel.
Saul's refusal to simply kill Agag as ordered may have been politically motivated, seeing Agag as a useful hostage. Now if as generally thought he was just a leader of violent nomads I don't see him being to useful. But if he was an exiled former Pharaoh of Egypt? That makes sense. I Samuel 30 records an Amalekite having an Egyptian slave.
The timing also makes Tuthmosis I the Pharaoh when Solomon began his reign, and this who's Daughter Solomon married.
Velikovsky and others are wrong in citing Genesis 14 as proving the Amalekites existed already before Esau/Edom. The reference to them there is an editorial gloss from Moses, telling his reader where on the Geography their familiar with he's referring to. Like how we after say "near modern _____".
So when it was his tyrannical behavior, particularly killing Seqenenre Tao, sparked the Theban revolution, I suspect the other Hyksos leaders overthrew him with a coup and banished him. He then with whatever supporters he had (mainly the fellow Amalekites) and set himself up a new home base in southern Israel.
Saul's refusal to simply kill Agag as ordered may have been politically motivated, seeing Agag as a useful hostage. Now if as generally thought he was just a leader of violent nomads I don't see him being to useful. But if he was an exiled former Pharaoh of Egypt? That makes sense. I Samuel 30 records an Amalekite having an Egyptian slave.
The timing also makes Tuthmosis I the Pharaoh when Solomon began his reign, and this who's Daughter Solomon married.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nefrubity
Nefrubity (Akhbetneferu) was an ancient Egyptian princess of the 18th dynasty. She was the daughter of Pharaoh Thutmose I and Ahmose, the sister of Hatshepsut and the half-sister of Thutmose II, Wadjmose and Amenmose.
Aidan Dodson & Dyan Hilton: The Complete Royal Families of Ancient Egypt. Thames & Hudson, 2004, ISBN 0-500-05128-3 p.140
She is depicted with her parents in Hatshepsut's Deir el-Bahari mortuary temple, then vanishes. It is assumed that she died young.
Dodson & Hilton, p.130
Joyce Tyldesley: Queens of Egypt. 2006
The
assumption she died young is of course I feel a false one. She
disappears from Egyptian records because she was married to Solomon and after that remained in Israel.
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