It seems most websites talking about the idea that Sinai was in Yemen
aren't giving a specific Mountain. Just referring to Teman of Habakkuk
3:3 paralleling Deuteronomy 33 with Teman in place of Sinai. And how Teman was a
Jewish name for Yemen. And mentioning the Kadesh-Barnea as Mecca theory
and how that involves identifying the first Meribah, Exodus 17, with
Ma'rib in Yemen.
Teman is also often translated South and Jesus called the Queen of Sheba the Queen of The South. And that Kingdom we know was in Yemen.
First I want to mention how all the Tribes of Arabia were wandering nomads, so it doesn't surprise me that many place names may repeat in both Northern Arabia/Jordan and Southern Arabia/Yemen. Like with Teman or Midian/Medan, or Seir, or Paran. And there is no doubt there was more then one Kadesh and Meirbah in the Wandering account.
Jebel El-Lawz supporters like to emphasize how Josephus called Sinai the tallest Mountain in the area. And I agree that it is in Arabia. Well it seems to me unclear whether he meant just where ever he meant by Midian, or all of Arabia. So I've decided maybe we should start our search by looking for the tallest mountain in Arabia.
Well the tallest Mountain on the Arabian Peninsula happens to be in Yemen. And the second tallest is very near by it. It's name is Jabal an Nabi Shu'ayb, the second tallest is Jabal Tiya. Both are located on opposite sides of the city of Sana'a. And a district in Sana'a is called Madina. They are part of or near a mountain range called Jabal Haraz. And another linked location is Tihamah. And there is also near to Yemen's north the Asir region.
Some of those names sound awfully familiar don't they? Yet they don't seem to come from local traditions claiming any such Biblical connection. Since the Israelites were traveling towards the Promised land when they
went from Sinai to Kadesh-Barnea. If Barnea is Mecca and Sinai was in
Yemen, then the Asir Mountains would be the Mountains of Seir between
Sinai and Kadesh. Doesn't mean the traditional location of Seir isn't the place in mind in other references to Seir. There is actually no doubt that The Bible refers to more then one Seir since there is also a Seir near Hebron in Joshua 15.
BTW, the only two mountains in the entire middle east that are taller don't
come close to even fitting the loosest definition of Arabia,
one's in Lebanon and the other in Iran.
The tallest mountain in Arabia is named after Shu'ayb. A Midianite Prophet mentioned in the Quran, who is linked to Mt Sinai and often either identified with Jethro or viewed as a predecessor of Jethro's priesthood. Yet this mountain which bears his name isn't where current Islamic traditions say he lived, no the Northern Arabia/Jordan assumption is the basis for the official site of his tomb.
I then Google searched and found at least one person had came to this conclusion before I did.
Sana'a is the Capital of modern Yemen, while we're used to thinking of Sinai as being away from civilization. But Sana'a wasn't always the capital, and the city, even the old city, is barely older then Islam, first popping up around 530 AD. The very tall Mountain was always there, but the City was not.
I also want to talk a little more about the name of Sheba.
I obviously disagree with the premise of The Bible Came from Arabia. I think Jerusalem was always what we today call Jerusalem, and Beth-El to the north of it. Likewise with Hebron and Galilee ect.
But I do think in some senses what God promised to Abraham did extent further south then we usually think. Especially since the sons of Keturah were totally South of what God gave Abraham according to most traditional maps of the Abrahamic covenant.
Beersheba is often given as a southern border of Israel. But it's not a boundary marker included in Ezekiel 40-47. It is usually contrasted with Dan, and since I think what is meant by Dan can extend pretty far North of the proper tribal allotments (Dan's proper allotment wasn't in the North at all), perhaps Beersheba as a southern border includes in a sense the sons of Keturah. And thus lands that David ruled as Tributaries rather then directly. Elijah stopped at Beersheba on the way to Horeb.
Linked to Beersheba is a place called Shebah (Genesis 26:33) and Sheba (Joshua 19:2). They're in land allotted to the Simeonites, but remember from Genesis 49 the Simeonites ultimately lost their own land to be absorbed into the other tribes. But one clan of Simeon was the Yamin (Jamin in the KJV) clan.
Now the Strongs lists those references to Sheba as totally separate words from the Genesis 10 Shebas and the Queen of Sheba. But the variation is really rather small, involving a letter that sometimes gets used as a vowel. And interestingly for the Queen, only Genesis 26 uses the name in a Feminine form.
Perhaps Beersheba is the border between Peleg and Joktan? And king Abimelech of Genesis 20 and 21 was a Joktanite King? And the Philistines of Genesis 26 had not yet fully migrated to the Gaza Strip from Caphtor? 2 Chronicles 14 refers to Cushites in Gerar, which is interesting given my Cushites in Arabia observations. Abimelech was probably a title not a personal name.
The Yam Suf clearly refers to the Red Sea, as that is where Solomon had his port. But perhaps the Red Sea crossing was at Bab-el-Mandeb? It is called that because in some traditions early migrations to Africa from Babel crossed there. So it would make sense to lead the Israelites there, going the opposite direction. And Afro-centrists sometimes claim this is where men first left Africa.
Update June 12th 2017: Goshen's location.
In conjunction with the Bab-el Mandeb aspect of this theory. I feel like questioning the traditional location of Goshen in the Delta. It's largely dependent on thinking Exodus mentions Ramses II's capital, but we in revised Chronology know that is wrong.
But first I should note, Exodus tells us Yahuah went out of his way to make sure their path to the Promised didn't run into the Philistines. So I think it makes sense that He would avoid the "Sinai" Peninsula altogether.
That Joshua conquered all the way to Goshen normally makes one think it can't be too deep into Egypt. But if Joshua was during the Second Intermediate period, as the Hyksos were establishing themselves. Or maybe even the First Intermediate period. Then the idea of him briefly conquering all of Egypt isn't so out there. Especially for those who think the River of Egypt used as a boundary marker for the Covenant is The Nile. Identifying Yaqub-Har
with Jacob as some like to clearly doesn't work. But maybe Yacub-Har
was a name the Egyptians call Joshua? As a leader of the descendants of
Jacob. Or Joshua could have conquered a different Goshen.
The Migdol of Eygpt may not always be the same place, Migdol just means any Tower or fortification. But interestingly many interpret Ezekiel's reference to Migdol in Egypt as being in the South near Syene/Aswan. And I've seen Jeremiah's Migdol in Egypt interpreted as being an Island in The Nile Isrealites settled on, from what we know outside The Bible that best fits Elephantine, in the South/Upper Egypt.
Genesis 45:10 says Goshen was near Joseph. I have become convinced Joseph's Pharaoh was a Second Dynasty one due to the Second Dynasty having an ancient account of a somewhat similar Famine during the reign of Neferkasokar. (The more Popular Imhotep Famine story is a Ptolemaic ea invention, not ancient enough, and is less similar then this to the Biblical story anyway.) The office of Grand Vizer seems to not show up in exiting Egyptian Records till later then the 2nd Dynasty. It could be it was basically invented for Joseph. The 2nd Dynasty Pharaohs ruled from an Upper Egypt capitol. So at this time that description makes an Upper Nile location for Goshen more logical.
I before and many others got confused by exactly what Velikovsky was claiming in his Kadesh-Barnea theory, he wasn't placing Sinai in Yemen, he was saying Mar'ib wasn't in Yemen. He actually did place Sinai in the traditional Helena selected location, and argued how Mecca could be 11 days from there. In that context needing around 20 days for Israel to get from Southern Egypt or Northern Sudan to Bab-el Mandeb is perfectly feasible. As said above Sinai being north of Barnea doesn't fit because they were traveling to the Promised Land when they traveled from Sinai to Barnea.
I've seen people suggest that the Slavery of the Israelites in Egypt maybe wasn't the kind of Slavery we usually picture, but perhaps almost a kind of Serfdom, or like the Helots were to Sparta. I'm not sure what I think of that in general, but it could arguably fit Egypt's relationship with Kerma. Also Kerma first appears in Egyptian records after the 2nd Dynasty and thus after my placement for Joseph.
The continuity between Kerma of the Old and Middle Kingdoms and even early 18th Dynasty, with the Nubian civilization that appeared at Napata during the Third Intermediate Period and went on to spring the 25th Dynasty, is a subject of controversy. It's unclear to me whether or not the Egyptians called anyone Kush before the 18th Dynasty. Some depictions of the Kermites seemingly show them as not quite as dark as the later Nubians, but that could be misleading, and how they looked works with my argument here either way. I'm fine with thinking the Israelites were once very Dark Skinned. And I certainly believe many Black people groups today have Israelite Ancestry, the Aksumites, the Lemba and the Igbo to name a few.
But I've also wondered. What if Goshen and Cushan can be the same name? Both have distinct Hebrew spellings in the Hebrew Bible. But Egypt used a different Alphabet and Goshen could come from attempting to represent what the Egyptians called this area. The same Hebrew name, Yeshua, can become in English Bibles both Joshua and Jesus depending on if Greek is a middle man in the Transliteration process. Goshen and Cushan could be the same kind of thing here.
This theory can still have Kerma exist after the Exodus. Just as many Egyptians and other gentiles who placed Blood on their Doorpost left with the Israelites, thus them being called a mixed multitude. Likewise Hebrews who didn't place their faith in the Passover Lamb were left behind. And to begin with Israelites may not have been the only people in Kerma. And when Joshua conquered all the way to Goshen he may have left some settlers there. And perhaps some Hyksos settled there, ones with Edomite or Ishmaelite ancestry may have felt a kinship. The Hyksos mainly based their power in the Delta, but one Hyksos ruler was named "The Nubian".
Showing posts with label Arabia. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Arabia. Show all posts
Wednesday, January 18, 2017
Velikovsky argued that Kadesh-Barnea was Mecca.
I've come to agree with Velikovsky less then I used to on some matters. But this is an example of one of his lesser known ideas that I've come to find compelling.
The "Great and Terrible Wilderness".
Some corresponding identities I'm not sold on, like Medina with the Midian of Jetho, I think that Midian was probably the usual Midian, but shouldn't his theory be looking for it in Yemen? And while I've contemplated the idea of Sinai in Yemen, I'm annoyed by the logic that goes into trying to make it a Volcano. And I've already talked about where I agree and disagree concerning the Amalekites.
I have already explained on this blog why I believe Sinai was in Arabia, even if I'm not so solid on Jebel El Lawz anymore. And on the Ishmael tag of my Prophecy Blog, I discus further reasons I see some truth in the Islamic claims about Ishmael, even though I would never endorse Islamic Theology, Christolgoy or Soterology. Including possibly agreeing that Baca of the Psalm 84:6 refers to the Bakkah of Mecca.
Others taking aspects of Velikovsky's argument have tied it into other totally off base theories, like all of Israel was in Arabia, or that the Mizraim of the Hebrew Bible was just an Arab tribe.
One thing that I'm not sure Velikovsky knew, was there were probably two places called Kadesh visited during the wandering. The place where Miriam died was not Barnea. I do think Barnea is meant by some unqualified references to Kadesh, and this theory requires all three Kadesh of Genesis to be Barnea. But the Kadesh that marks a Southern/Eastern boundary of Israel in Ezekiel 47 and 48 I do not think was Barnea but was somewhere near Aqaba or Petra, where Miriam died, and a location near Patra is traditionally where Aaron was buried. There were likewise two places called Meribah.
Lots of people I know disagree about there being two places called Kadesh in the wandering. But reading of the narrative that assume them to be the same have Israel in the same place for like 38 years. Deuteronomy 2:14 defines this 38 years as the time they were traveling from Kadesh-Barnea to the Brook of Zered. So they were at Barnea only at the start of that time-frame. And in this case the sources Veiikvosky is drawing on say Mozaikiya and his tribe stayed in Mecca only a few years then traveled North. BTW, the "Mountain of Moses" in the Masudi quote Velikovsky talked about could be Nebo where Moses was buried and died, rather then Sinai.
The Kadesh of Numbers 13, which is Barnea, is in the Wilderness of Paran. In Numbers 20 they arrive at a Kadesh in the wilderness of Zin, no references to Paran apply to the Kadesh where Miriam died. In Numbers 13:21 Zin is referenced not as being where that Kadesh is located, but as a southern border of the Promised Land that the 12 spies surveyed.
What interests me in particular is how this is one of the places where The Tabernacle had been erected, and some Arab historians do say a Tent existed where the Kaaba is first. I have become intrigued by the argument that the Tabernacle was actually Dome shaped. And there is a Dome shaped structure near the Kaaba. I don't think any building there now goes back to the time of Moses, but it's interesting.
Every time it's called Barnea it's called that in retrospect. It's just called Kadesh when Israel is there in the present in Numbers 13. It's in references back to those events in Numbers 32 and 33, and in Deuteronomy and Joshua that it's called Kadesh-Barnea. That makes me wonder what Barnea means?
Update May 2017: I made some mistakes up above.
I'm not alone in this mistake I made, lots of other people talking about what Velikovsky wrote on Kadesh-Barnea and Mecca seem to miss that he was suggesting Mar'ib wasn't in Yemen.
Velikovsky did not place Sinai in Yemen or in Arabia at all, he based this on a Sinai Peninsula Sinai view and said it fit the 11 day journey requirement by arguing a day's journey could be 40 Kilometers. With that math you could also made Mecca as Barnea consistent with Jabal el-laws or Jebel al-Madhbah.
However I have a problem with placing Sinai north of Kadesh-Barnea, since the account of Israel traveling from Sinai to Kadesh implies they were heading in the direction of the Promised Land. If Mecca is Kadesh-Barnea then Sinai is south of it, between them is a mountain range called Seir which could refer to the Asir mountains. So it being in Yemen fits best.
I think the Kadesh in the Wilderness of Zin where Miraim died is Petra or someplace very near there. The Mountain near Petra believed to be where Aaron was buried I think is where Aaron was buried.
The story Velikvosky was drawing on I think is itself a confused mixture of traditions. Partly based on Moses but also mingled with how the Banu Khuza'a came to Mecca around the second century AD. Or sometimes as early as the 6th Century BC.
One of the guilt by affiliation tactics used by enemies of Sinai in Arabia is a fear it would somehow vindicate Islam. Muhammad's failures as a Prophet are sufficient to discredit Islam, Muslim traditions about Ishmael derive from what Jews and Christians of Arabia already believed.
Jerome and Eusebius both well before Muhammad placed the Wilderness of Paran in Arabia Deserta.
It is true that for most of Biblical History Ishmaelite tribes lived further north, mostly in Jordan and Syria. But Jeremiah foretells Kedar being scattered by Nebuchadnezzar. Which I talked about in my post showing that Muhammad descended from Ishmael.
But the Islamic traditions agree that for a long time after Ishmael himself others controlled Mecca until the Kedarites came. The Jurhum (who are sometimes identified as Amalekites), and then the Banu Khuza'a.
Update October 2017: Alternatively, Mecca as Sinai.
Another theory out there is that Mt Sinai was Jabal al-Nour (Mount of Light or Illumination), a mountain near Mecca, where supposedly Muhammad had his first revelation, in the Hira cave. A lot of evidence for that theory could overlap with Mecca as Kadesh, so I figured I'd talk about it here.
If that theory is true, the Hira cave could also be Elijah's Cave. And the Kaaba could be where the Tabernacle of Moses was first pitched, the original Holy of Holies. And the Zamzam Well could be the Well of Exodus 2:15, where Moses met Zipporah. And perhaps also identify the city of Midian with Medina, also named Yathrib, a name possibly derived from Jethro.
Another nearby Mountain is Jabal Thawr, meaning Mountain of the Bull, perhaps linked to the Golden Calf incident.
And that could be consistent with a more usual location for Kadesh-Barnea, in southern Israel or Jordan. Possibly near Petra.
What's curious is how Wikipedia and some other sites will mention that Charles Beke in 1873 suggested Jabal al-Nour as Mt Sinai, but without mentioning it's close association with Muhammad or Mecca, and even misrepresent where it is making it sound closer to the Gulf of Aqaba.
Even going off the account Velikovsky based his Kadesh as Mecca theory on. It has this family/tribe going from Meri'b right to Mecca, no stopping at a separate Sinai analogue in between. So maybe even that account Velikovsky had miscalculated and was really associating Mecca with Sinai?
Now this gets into some authors theories that the Ark of the Covenant is in the Kaaba now, and was placed there by Muhammad, and that till then it was in Sinai. And citing the Quran, Sura 2 verse 248. As well as Second Maccabees saying the Ark wound up hidden in Sinai by Jeremiah.
I still have reasons for favoring Sinai being in Yemen. But this possibility is interesting. Though I of course don't think the Ark is in Mecca.
It's interesting then that in Galatians 4:24 Paul links Mount Sinai to Hagar and Ishmael.
Update April 2019: Forget the Mecca as Sinai theory for now. I've become aware of a theory that the Mecca of Muhammad was not originally modern Mecca but Petra, which Josephus seems to have identified with Kadesh-Barnea. That could make Velikovsky's theory right in a way he didn't expect.
https://solascripturachristianliberty.blogspot.com/2018/07/could-islam-have-had-nestorian-origins.html
Though if the two Kadesh are separate, Petra is more likely the second Kadesh, where Miriam and Aaron died and where the second getting water form a rock miracle happened.
The "Great and Terrible Wilderness".
Some corresponding identities I'm not sold on, like Medina with the Midian of Jetho, I think that Midian was probably the usual Midian, but shouldn't his theory be looking for it in Yemen? And while I've contemplated the idea of Sinai in Yemen, I'm annoyed by the logic that goes into trying to make it a Volcano. And I've already talked about where I agree and disagree concerning the Amalekites.
I have already explained on this blog why I believe Sinai was in Arabia, even if I'm not so solid on Jebel El Lawz anymore. And on the Ishmael tag of my Prophecy Blog, I discus further reasons I see some truth in the Islamic claims about Ishmael, even though I would never endorse Islamic Theology, Christolgoy or Soterology. Including possibly agreeing that Baca of the Psalm 84:6 refers to the Bakkah of Mecca.
Others taking aspects of Velikovsky's argument have tied it into other totally off base theories, like all of Israel was in Arabia, or that the Mizraim of the Hebrew Bible was just an Arab tribe.
One thing that I'm not sure Velikovsky knew, was there were probably two places called Kadesh visited during the wandering. The place where Miriam died was not Barnea. I do think Barnea is meant by some unqualified references to Kadesh, and this theory requires all three Kadesh of Genesis to be Barnea. But the Kadesh that marks a Southern/Eastern boundary of Israel in Ezekiel 47 and 48 I do not think was Barnea but was somewhere near Aqaba or Petra, where Miriam died, and a location near Patra is traditionally where Aaron was buried. There were likewise two places called Meribah.
Lots of people I know disagree about there being two places called Kadesh in the wandering. But reading of the narrative that assume them to be the same have Israel in the same place for like 38 years. Deuteronomy 2:14 defines this 38 years as the time they were traveling from Kadesh-Barnea to the Brook of Zered. So they were at Barnea only at the start of that time-frame. And in this case the sources Veiikvosky is drawing on say Mozaikiya and his tribe stayed in Mecca only a few years then traveled North. BTW, the "Mountain of Moses" in the Masudi quote Velikovsky talked about could be Nebo where Moses was buried and died, rather then Sinai.
The Kadesh of Numbers 13, which is Barnea, is in the Wilderness of Paran. In Numbers 20 they arrive at a Kadesh in the wilderness of Zin, no references to Paran apply to the Kadesh where Miriam died. In Numbers 13:21 Zin is referenced not as being where that Kadesh is located, but as a southern border of the Promised Land that the 12 spies surveyed.
What interests me in particular is how this is one of the places where The Tabernacle had been erected, and some Arab historians do say a Tent existed where the Kaaba is first. I have become intrigued by the argument that the Tabernacle was actually Dome shaped. And there is a Dome shaped structure near the Kaaba. I don't think any building there now goes back to the time of Moses, but it's interesting.
Every time it's called Barnea it's called that in retrospect. It's just called Kadesh when Israel is there in the present in Numbers 13. It's in references back to those events in Numbers 32 and 33, and in Deuteronomy and Joshua that it's called Kadesh-Barnea. That makes me wonder what Barnea means?
Update May 2017: I made some mistakes up above.
I'm not alone in this mistake I made, lots of other people talking about what Velikovsky wrote on Kadesh-Barnea and Mecca seem to miss that he was suggesting Mar'ib wasn't in Yemen.
Velikovsky did not place Sinai in Yemen or in Arabia at all, he based this on a Sinai Peninsula Sinai view and said it fit the 11 day journey requirement by arguing a day's journey could be 40 Kilometers. With that math you could also made Mecca as Barnea consistent with Jabal el-laws or Jebel al-Madhbah.
However I have a problem with placing Sinai north of Kadesh-Barnea, since the account of Israel traveling from Sinai to Kadesh implies they were heading in the direction of the Promised Land. If Mecca is Kadesh-Barnea then Sinai is south of it, between them is a mountain range called Seir which could refer to the Asir mountains. So it being in Yemen fits best.
I think the Kadesh in the Wilderness of Zin where Miraim died is Petra or someplace very near there. The Mountain near Petra believed to be where Aaron was buried I think is where Aaron was buried.
The story Velikvosky was drawing on I think is itself a confused mixture of traditions. Partly based on Moses but also mingled with how the Banu Khuza'a came to Mecca around the second century AD. Or sometimes as early as the 6th Century BC.
One of the guilt by affiliation tactics used by enemies of Sinai in Arabia is a fear it would somehow vindicate Islam. Muhammad's failures as a Prophet are sufficient to discredit Islam, Muslim traditions about Ishmael derive from what Jews and Christians of Arabia already believed.
Jerome and Eusebius both well before Muhammad placed the Wilderness of Paran in Arabia Deserta.
It is true that for most of Biblical History Ishmaelite tribes lived further north, mostly in Jordan and Syria. But Jeremiah foretells Kedar being scattered by Nebuchadnezzar. Which I talked about in my post showing that Muhammad descended from Ishmael.
But the Islamic traditions agree that for a long time after Ishmael himself others controlled Mecca until the Kedarites came. The Jurhum (who are sometimes identified as Amalekites), and then the Banu Khuza'a.
Update October 2017: Alternatively, Mecca as Sinai.
Another theory out there is that Mt Sinai was Jabal al-Nour (Mount of Light or Illumination), a mountain near Mecca, where supposedly Muhammad had his first revelation, in the Hira cave. A lot of evidence for that theory could overlap with Mecca as Kadesh, so I figured I'd talk about it here.
If that theory is true, the Hira cave could also be Elijah's Cave. And the Kaaba could be where the Tabernacle of Moses was first pitched, the original Holy of Holies. And the Zamzam Well could be the Well of Exodus 2:15, where Moses met Zipporah. And perhaps also identify the city of Midian with Medina, also named Yathrib, a name possibly derived from Jethro.
Another nearby Mountain is Jabal Thawr, meaning Mountain of the Bull, perhaps linked to the Golden Calf incident.
And that could be consistent with a more usual location for Kadesh-Barnea, in southern Israel or Jordan. Possibly near Petra.
What's curious is how Wikipedia and some other sites will mention that Charles Beke in 1873 suggested Jabal al-Nour as Mt Sinai, but without mentioning it's close association with Muhammad or Mecca, and even misrepresent where it is making it sound closer to the Gulf of Aqaba.
Even going off the account Velikovsky based his Kadesh as Mecca theory on. It has this family/tribe going from Meri'b right to Mecca, no stopping at a separate Sinai analogue in between. So maybe even that account Velikovsky had miscalculated and was really associating Mecca with Sinai?
Now this gets into some authors theories that the Ark of the Covenant is in the Kaaba now, and was placed there by Muhammad, and that till then it was in Sinai. And citing the Quran, Sura 2 verse 248. As well as Second Maccabees saying the Ark wound up hidden in Sinai by Jeremiah.
I still have reasons for favoring Sinai being in Yemen. But this possibility is interesting. Though I of course don't think the Ark is in Mecca.
It's interesting then that in Galatians 4:24 Paul links Mount Sinai to Hagar and Ishmael.
Update April 2019: Forget the Mecca as Sinai theory for now. I've become aware of a theory that the Mecca of Muhammad was not originally modern Mecca but Petra, which Josephus seems to have identified with Kadesh-Barnea. That could make Velikovsky's theory right in a way he didn't expect.
https://solascripturachristianliberty.blogspot.com/2018/07/could-islam-have-had-nestorian-origins.html
Though if the two Kadesh are separate, Petra is more likely the second Kadesh, where Miriam and Aaron died and where the second getting water form a rock miracle happened.
Saturday, November 5, 2016
Cush, Africa, India and Arabia
One of the most confusing things in trying to determine the geography of Eden in Genesis 2 (if you think those names refer to the same places they do in Post-Flood geography, which Moses' present tense grammar supports), is how a river (The Gihon) sharing the same source as the Tigris, Euphrates and one seemingly linked to Arabia (Pishon), can encompass the Land of Cush (translated Ethiopia). But of course this is confusing only to those who've gotten in the habit of thinking Cush only refers to Africa south of Egypt.
Rob Skiba mocks the theory that places the Gihon in northern India. Well he is forgetting the Hindu Kush and the Kushan Empire. I've already discussed on this blog that I think Cush's son Raamah traveled to India and that he was partly the basis for the Hindu mythical figure of Rama. Rama and Raamah both had two sons. Rama's were mothered by Sita and named Lava and Kush, so like the Greeks the Indian mythical memory confused things. The Ramayana, our main source on Rama, like the Mahabarata is post Alexander The Great, (they're not nearly as old as Ancient Aliens keeps saying they are). Raamah's sons were Sheba and Dedan, maybe they are equally as linked to Arabia as Jokshan's pair of sons by those names. But I think the Hindu god Shiva's name could come from Sheba, the Hebrew word Sheba is sometimes pronounced that way thanks to the B/V interchangeability. And maybe Dedan is connected to the Danu and Danavas of Hindu mythology, and/or the Danuna of Burma.
Cush can also be linked to Mesopotamia starting with Nimrod. Some theories on Eden say the Cush meant there is the city of Kish. The Ziggurat of Kish is to a god who's name is possibly similar to two of Cush's sons. Judges has a King of Mesopotamia with Cushan in his composite name and/or title. Cushan in the Hebrew is just Cush with an N added at the end. Some have also theorized the Kassites could come from Cush.
The names of some of Cush's sons in Genesis 10 can be linked to Arabia, even leaving out the names that have duplicates among the descendants of Shem. Bill Cooper covers them in After The Flood Appendix 2. I think his biggest mistakes are who he puts where with the duplicate names, but it's still all useful information. He sadly missed Raamah's connection to India.
Another appearance in The Bible of the name Cushan is in Habakkuk 3:7 which all scholars agree is about Arabia. Where Cushan is mentioned in close proximity to Midian.
The reference in Numbers 12 to Moses having a Cushite wife is, because of the tendency to by default assume that name means Africa, part of the origin of the tradition recounted in Josephus that Moses married a Nubian princess after conquering Ethiopia for Egypt. This passage also becomes relevant to debates about both Polygamy and Inter-Racial marriage, with the text's condemnation of Aaron and Miriam's criticism here taken as a condemnation of opposition to either of those.
However there are scholars who have argued this wife may not even be a separate individual from Zipporah, the daughter of Jethro, thus making it irrelevant to Polygamy. Jetho is called a Priest in Midian, and sometimes seemingly a Midanite by residence. But his tribal identity is Kenite, we do not know how the Kenites fit into Genesis 10. Bill Cooper's argument they came from Midian's son Henoch I do not find convincing. Remembering that a Cushan is linked to Midian, the Kenites could very well be from Cush.
Bishop James Ussher in Annals of The World for the year 1615 BC quotes Eusebius Chronicles 1. 1. 1:53 as saying that the Ethiopians of Africa migrated there from the Indus River. During the Old and Middle Kingdoms Egypt's main enemy to their south was called Kerma, there is no definitive evidence of a nation called Kush on the Nile River until the 18th Dynasty.
One scholar writing theories about the Igbo Tribe of Africa suggested that Midian's sons Ephah and Epher might have gone to Africa, and the name Africa itself might come from Epher. I think all five sons of Midian were still in Midian in the days of Moses, and that is why Midian had five kings during the Wandering. But maybe in the days of Gideon when some Midianites sought to conquer Israel, others migrated to Africa. And perhaps at that time some of the Cushites near them did the same. Midianites have already been suggested to be among the tribes that made up the Hyksos, perhaps the Cushites were as well.
Putting all of those factors into consideration. There is no definitive proof ANY reference to Cush in The Torah ever means Africa. And maybe even many references from later that cause confusion are confusing only because we assume Africa.
On the subject of Revised Chronology there is Zerah The Cushite who fought a war with King Asa according to 2 Chronicles. Nothing in that account mentions Egypt at all. But all theories on who Shishak is think an Ethiopian invading Israel a generation later must be tied to Egyptian history somehow. And while I have myself on this blog endorsed two possible Egyptian identifications for Zerah (the more recent one the only one I still consider plausible). I now feel the need to point out that we do not need to.
The proper account of the war with Zerah doesn't mention Lubim (often taken to mean Libya) either. But they are mentioned alongside the Ethiopians when a Prophet rebukes Asa later. We don't know everything about Asa's 41 year reign, this may not have even been the same war. But either way Libyans are in a much better position then Nubia to potentially come to Israel by sea and thus bypass Egypt altogether. And perhaps what Lubim refers to is itself something we need to reevaluate, but I don't feel like looking into that myself just yet.
Isaiah 18 is also confusing. Partly because this Prophecy includes a quotation. I think most likely Israel is the nation that the nation "beyond the rivers of Cush" is sending messengers to. The "rivers of Cush" I think best fits a Mesopotamian or Indian Cush.
In the reign of Jehoram/Joram of Judah, there is an account of Judah being attacked by Philistines and "Arabians who are by Cush". That doesn't make sense if Cush and Arabia are on different continents.
One more thought on Cush and Arabia. In an earlier Nimrod post I observed how the Book of Jubilees seems to make a daughter of Nimrod the mother of Peleg and probably also Joktan. That would make Cush via Nimrod an ancestor of all the Semitic Tribes of Arabia.
Isaiah 20 is clearly the Cush in Africa however. Same mostly with Ezekiel 38&39 where since I view it the same as Revelation 20's Gog and Magog invasion, Cush is the South and Phut the West, while Persia is the East, and the other invaders mentioned are the North, all four corners (though Arabia could also be described as South, Jesus called the Queen of Saba the Queen of the South). And I do still think Taharqa is the 25th Dynasty ruler.
In an early post of this blog I made a big deal out of how Ethiopia in Greek mythology is linked to Joppa, and using that as evidence for the Ethiopian Jews claim to come from Dan. Since then I've read criticism that the Ethiopian Jews do not identify themselves with Dan, that idea comes solely from the legends spread by Eldad. The various traditions the Ethiopian Jews have all seem to favor them coming from Judah. That is something I may discus more in the future.
Maps drawn interpreting what was allotted to the Tribes tend to put Joppa in Dan. But Joshua 19:46 mentions a Danie location as a border before Joppa, not Joppa itself.. Likewise the Samson narrative from Judges 23-26 makes no reference to Joppa even though Samson was a Danite in their original allotment. Joppa seems to not be referenced itself at all till the time of Solomon, it appears in the Old Testament only three times, in 2 Chronicles 2:16, Ezra 3:7 and Jonah 1:3. Jonah is the most famous reference, but the other two are about the Lebanon in origin supplies for The Temple coming through there.
Once Dan existed solely in the North, his old allotment could have been absorbed by Judah, Benjamin, Ephraim or Western Manasseh. All four of those tribes also had Monarchies at some point, but Manasseh's only lasted two years. At the same time observations I've made elsewhere make Manasseh seem the most likely to be interested in Sea Faring and thus having a port city. But they had other ports already like Dor. Acts 9:32-28 refers to Lydda as being nigh to Joppa. Lydda is in the Hebrew Bible Lod which is identified as a town of Benjamin (1 Chronicles 8:12; Ezra 2:33; Nehemiah 7:37; 11:35).
I mentioned how Cepheus is a name that could come from the same Semitic root the New Testament uses as the Hebrew/Aramaic counterpart to Petros/Peter. As an non-Catholic I know that Petros is Peter but Petras, the true Rock, is Jesus. Solomon is a type of Christ, and The Temple is a type of The Church. So could Cepheus have been a name for a Davidic King?
But Petra is also the name of a city in modern Jordan and the classical definition of Arabia, that is possibly right where Sinai was. So could this mythical Ethiopia also be an Arabian Cushan, and Joppa really just a port Perseus traveled through to get there? Memnon king of Ethiopia of Greek mythology had a brother who was a king of Arabia.
The Rock Moses struck to provide Water for the Israelites was a type of Jesus as The Rock, so connecting Petra and Cepheus to that region is very logical. Jeremiah 49:16 and Obadiah 3 both in prophecies against Edom refer to them "that dwellest in the clefts of the rock". The word for Rock there is Cela/Sela/Selah, believed to be the name for the Seir/Petra area in the Amarna letters, and mentioned in 2 Kings 14:7 which seems to describe it's name being changed. 1 Samuel 23 possibly records how it got the name Cela to begin with. Isaiah 42:11 also mentions Cela in close proximity to Kedar.
You might ask "where do Black Africans come from then?"
For starters as I don't believe in the Evolutionary model I think it's entirely possible many parts of Africa were not inhabited until after 1615 BC. And some even far later then that.
But regardless of that. I think Phut, the only Son of Ham who none of his own sons are named, could have been ancestral to more Tribes then we usually assume. I also think the Seven sons of Mizriam may have spread further then we usually assume. They certainly all started in Egypt, but ultimately the intent of Genesis 10 is to identify 70 distinct Nations, so I do think they were more then just subgroups of Egypt. The Kingdom of Kerma was probably a Mizraimite offshoot for example.
Last but not least, given the premise of my Shem, Ham and Japheth post. I'm willing to consider that the population of Africa is not limited to Ham. I've already suggested Midianites came at the same time Cush did. But maybe others came before that. Most of the sons of Joktan are not as firmly accounted for as the big three, Sheba, Ophir and Havilah, and links to Africa are argued even for those.
And at a much later point even then Cush. I have entertained the arguments of some that many Israelites came to Africa and were ancestral to the same Tribes chiefly targeted by the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade. But that shall be a subject for a future post.
Rob Skiba mocks the theory that places the Gihon in northern India. Well he is forgetting the Hindu Kush and the Kushan Empire. I've already discussed on this blog that I think Cush's son Raamah traveled to India and that he was partly the basis for the Hindu mythical figure of Rama. Rama and Raamah both had two sons. Rama's were mothered by Sita and named Lava and Kush, so like the Greeks the Indian mythical memory confused things. The Ramayana, our main source on Rama, like the Mahabarata is post Alexander The Great, (they're not nearly as old as Ancient Aliens keeps saying they are). Raamah's sons were Sheba and Dedan, maybe they are equally as linked to Arabia as Jokshan's pair of sons by those names. But I think the Hindu god Shiva's name could come from Sheba, the Hebrew word Sheba is sometimes pronounced that way thanks to the B/V interchangeability. And maybe Dedan is connected to the Danu and Danavas of Hindu mythology, and/or the Danuna of Burma.
Cush can also be linked to Mesopotamia starting with Nimrod. Some theories on Eden say the Cush meant there is the city of Kish. The Ziggurat of Kish is to a god who's name is possibly similar to two of Cush's sons. Judges has a King of Mesopotamia with Cushan in his composite name and/or title. Cushan in the Hebrew is just Cush with an N added at the end. Some have also theorized the Kassites could come from Cush.
The names of some of Cush's sons in Genesis 10 can be linked to Arabia, even leaving out the names that have duplicates among the descendants of Shem. Bill Cooper covers them in After The Flood Appendix 2. I think his biggest mistakes are who he puts where with the duplicate names, but it's still all useful information. He sadly missed Raamah's connection to India.
Another appearance in The Bible of the name Cushan is in Habakkuk 3:7 which all scholars agree is about Arabia. Where Cushan is mentioned in close proximity to Midian.
The reference in Numbers 12 to Moses having a Cushite wife is, because of the tendency to by default assume that name means Africa, part of the origin of the tradition recounted in Josephus that Moses married a Nubian princess after conquering Ethiopia for Egypt. This passage also becomes relevant to debates about both Polygamy and Inter-Racial marriage, with the text's condemnation of Aaron and Miriam's criticism here taken as a condemnation of opposition to either of those.
However there are scholars who have argued this wife may not even be a separate individual from Zipporah, the daughter of Jethro, thus making it irrelevant to Polygamy. Jetho is called a Priest in Midian, and sometimes seemingly a Midanite by residence. But his tribal identity is Kenite, we do not know how the Kenites fit into Genesis 10. Bill Cooper's argument they came from Midian's son Henoch I do not find convincing. Remembering that a Cushan is linked to Midian, the Kenites could very well be from Cush.
Bishop James Ussher in Annals of The World for the year 1615 BC quotes Eusebius Chronicles 1. 1. 1:53 as saying that the Ethiopians of Africa migrated there from the Indus River. During the Old and Middle Kingdoms Egypt's main enemy to their south was called Kerma, there is no definitive evidence of a nation called Kush on the Nile River until the 18th Dynasty.
One scholar writing theories about the Igbo Tribe of Africa suggested that Midian's sons Ephah and Epher might have gone to Africa, and the name Africa itself might come from Epher. I think all five sons of Midian were still in Midian in the days of Moses, and that is why Midian had five kings during the Wandering. But maybe in the days of Gideon when some Midianites sought to conquer Israel, others migrated to Africa. And perhaps at that time some of the Cushites near them did the same. Midianites have already been suggested to be among the tribes that made up the Hyksos, perhaps the Cushites were as well.
Putting all of those factors into consideration. There is no definitive proof ANY reference to Cush in The Torah ever means Africa. And maybe even many references from later that cause confusion are confusing only because we assume Africa.
On the subject of Revised Chronology there is Zerah The Cushite who fought a war with King Asa according to 2 Chronicles. Nothing in that account mentions Egypt at all. But all theories on who Shishak is think an Ethiopian invading Israel a generation later must be tied to Egyptian history somehow. And while I have myself on this blog endorsed two possible Egyptian identifications for Zerah (the more recent one the only one I still consider plausible). I now feel the need to point out that we do not need to.
The proper account of the war with Zerah doesn't mention Lubim (often taken to mean Libya) either. But they are mentioned alongside the Ethiopians when a Prophet rebukes Asa later. We don't know everything about Asa's 41 year reign, this may not have even been the same war. But either way Libyans are in a much better position then Nubia to potentially come to Israel by sea and thus bypass Egypt altogether. And perhaps what Lubim refers to is itself something we need to reevaluate, but I don't feel like looking into that myself just yet.
Isaiah 18 is also confusing. Partly because this Prophecy includes a quotation. I think most likely Israel is the nation that the nation "beyond the rivers of Cush" is sending messengers to. The "rivers of Cush" I think best fits a Mesopotamian or Indian Cush.
In the reign of Jehoram/Joram of Judah, there is an account of Judah being attacked by Philistines and "Arabians who are by Cush". That doesn't make sense if Cush and Arabia are on different continents.
One more thought on Cush and Arabia. In an earlier Nimrod post I observed how the Book of Jubilees seems to make a daughter of Nimrod the mother of Peleg and probably also Joktan. That would make Cush via Nimrod an ancestor of all the Semitic Tribes of Arabia.
Isaiah 20 is clearly the Cush in Africa however. Same mostly with Ezekiel 38&39 where since I view it the same as Revelation 20's Gog and Magog invasion, Cush is the South and Phut the West, while Persia is the East, and the other invaders mentioned are the North, all four corners (though Arabia could also be described as South, Jesus called the Queen of Saba the Queen of the South). And I do still think Taharqa is the 25th Dynasty ruler.
In an early post of this blog I made a big deal out of how Ethiopia in Greek mythology is linked to Joppa, and using that as evidence for the Ethiopian Jews claim to come from Dan. Since then I've read criticism that the Ethiopian Jews do not identify themselves with Dan, that idea comes solely from the legends spread by Eldad. The various traditions the Ethiopian Jews have all seem to favor them coming from Judah. That is something I may discus more in the future.
Maps drawn interpreting what was allotted to the Tribes tend to put Joppa in Dan. But Joshua 19:46 mentions a Danie location as a border before Joppa, not Joppa itself.. Likewise the Samson narrative from Judges 23-26 makes no reference to Joppa even though Samson was a Danite in their original allotment. Joppa seems to not be referenced itself at all till the time of Solomon, it appears in the Old Testament only three times, in 2 Chronicles 2:16, Ezra 3:7 and Jonah 1:3. Jonah is the most famous reference, but the other two are about the Lebanon in origin supplies for The Temple coming through there.
Once Dan existed solely in the North, his old allotment could have been absorbed by Judah, Benjamin, Ephraim or Western Manasseh. All four of those tribes also had Monarchies at some point, but Manasseh's only lasted two years. At the same time observations I've made elsewhere make Manasseh seem the most likely to be interested in Sea Faring and thus having a port city. But they had other ports already like Dor. Acts 9:32-28 refers to Lydda as being nigh to Joppa. Lydda is in the Hebrew Bible Lod which is identified as a town of Benjamin (1 Chronicles 8:12; Ezra 2:33; Nehemiah 7:37; 11:35).
I mentioned how Cepheus is a name that could come from the same Semitic root the New Testament uses as the Hebrew/Aramaic counterpart to Petros/Peter. As an non-Catholic I know that Petros is Peter but Petras, the true Rock, is Jesus. Solomon is a type of Christ, and The Temple is a type of The Church. So could Cepheus have been a name for a Davidic King?
But Petra is also the name of a city in modern Jordan and the classical definition of Arabia, that is possibly right where Sinai was. So could this mythical Ethiopia also be an Arabian Cushan, and Joppa really just a port Perseus traveled through to get there? Memnon king of Ethiopia of Greek mythology had a brother who was a king of Arabia.
The Rock Moses struck to provide Water for the Israelites was a type of Jesus as The Rock, so connecting Petra and Cepheus to that region is very logical. Jeremiah 49:16 and Obadiah 3 both in prophecies against Edom refer to them "that dwellest in the clefts of the rock". The word for Rock there is Cela/Sela/Selah, believed to be the name for the Seir/Petra area in the Amarna letters, and mentioned in 2 Kings 14:7 which seems to describe it's name being changed. 1 Samuel 23 possibly records how it got the name Cela to begin with. Isaiah 42:11 also mentions Cela in close proximity to Kedar.
You might ask "where do Black Africans come from then?"
For starters as I don't believe in the Evolutionary model I think it's entirely possible many parts of Africa were not inhabited until after 1615 BC. And some even far later then that.
But regardless of that. I think Phut, the only Son of Ham who none of his own sons are named, could have been ancestral to more Tribes then we usually assume. I also think the Seven sons of Mizriam may have spread further then we usually assume. They certainly all started in Egypt, but ultimately the intent of Genesis 10 is to identify 70 distinct Nations, so I do think they were more then just subgroups of Egypt. The Kingdom of Kerma was probably a Mizraimite offshoot for example.
Last but not least, given the premise of my Shem, Ham and Japheth post. I'm willing to consider that the population of Africa is not limited to Ham. I've already suggested Midianites came at the same time Cush did. But maybe others came before that. Most of the sons of Joktan are not as firmly accounted for as the big three, Sheba, Ophir and Havilah, and links to Africa are argued even for those.
And at a much later point even then Cush. I have entertained the arguments of some that many Israelites came to Africa and were ancestral to the same Tribes chiefly targeted by the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade. But that shall be a subject for a future post.
Tuesday, April 26, 2016
Sinai in Midian/Arabia
I've agreed before with placing Sinai in Midian and identifying it with Jabal El Lawz, and citing the research of Bob Cornuke to support that.
Recently I've read some critics of the view, fellow believers who are critics of it and who support the traditional site (or at least a Sinai Peninsula view), not Atheists. Mainly two from the Idolphin website, Is Mt Sinai in Saudi Abrabia? and Problems with Mt Sinai in Saudi Arabia.
I'm not interested in addressing every criticism there, no one is perfect, and I'm very open to Sinai being not Jabal El Lawz but some other site in Midian or really anywhere in Arabia for reasons that will become clear later. The main reason for favoring this mountain over other Midianite candidates is that it's the tallest. 1, only Extra Biblical sources say Sinai was the tallest, 2, things change and others might have been taller in the past. I've recently developed an interest in Jabel al-Madhbah near Petra.
I've also been thinking, maybe Horeb and Sinai aren't the same mountain. They certainly must be near each other though.
Nor am I as interested in denying that the traditional site has antiquity to it, maybe even before Helena though we're pretty much dependent on her word that a tradition already existed.
One argument against the traditional site not addressed is the significance of Edom not letting the Israelites pass through their land in Numbers 20.
First of all if they were coming from the Sinai Peninsula they would not have been dependent on Edom to enter the Promised Land from the South. The Philistine lands at least were lands Edom wouldn't have ruled.
But second, Edom controlled everything between the Dead Sea and the Gulf of Aqaba, so if Israel couldn't pass through Edom how did they wind up east of the Jordan when the wandering was over? And if you're going to object that maybe Edom didn't always control all the way to the Gulf of Aqaba then you are only further undermining the significance of not being allowed to pass through Edom being such an inconvenience and a large part of why they were stuck in this wilderness for 40 years.
I also do not see the necessity of crossing the Red Sea in the traditional view, and it often overlaps with the ridiculous "Sea of Reeds" argument, which only even works as a pun in English, the Hebrew is Yam Suf. I've seen it claimed that Yam Suf refers specifically to the Gulf of Aqaba, but I'm not going to bet on that right now, but I know it includes that Gulf from references to Solomon's port on it in 1 Kings 9:26.
Also I personally have come to see the limited geography associated with the wandering even by Conruke and other Jabal El Lawz supporters as being pretty silly given this a 40 year wandering. Yet if they were stuck in Sinai you have no choice but to limit it, and that limitation is the reason we became so used to viewing it's scale as so small. Basically I think it's possible they wandered all over Arabia and Jordan. The narrative parts of Exodus-Deuteronomy are mostly about specific situations and I do not think are a complete record of 40 whole years at all. For a modern comparison, that is equivalent to from the Bicentennial, 1976, to this year (I'm writing this in late April 2016). From the last year of Ford to the last year of Obama. Also both World Wars happened in less then 40 years.
Arguing whether or not all of what we today call Sinai can be considered part of Egypt I would agree shouldn't be as big a deal. But their certainty it was not has one big unacknowledged problem, that the Wadi Al-Arish is by any descent scholar known to be the the "River of Egypt" often refereed to as a Border of what was Promised to Abraham. A few uninformed commentators will act like that is the Nile, but that idea is obviously absurd, clearly Egypt's heart was not it's border with Israel.
The allotments of Ezekiel 40-48 make clear the Sinai Peninsula was not part of what God promised to Israel.
They do not deny that Midian refers to land in North Western Saudi Arabia east of the Gulf of Aqaba. But make all kinds of convoluted arguments to justify saying Jetho was a Priest East of Aqaba but his flocks were west of it. His argument about Shepherds sometimes traveling long distances to tend their flocks is valid, in the modern world, and maybe in the ancient world, but that a Midanianite Priest wold have his flocks on effectively a different continent is ridiculous.
The first article attempts to use Exodus 18 and Numbers 10 to Prove Sinai was outside Midian. Neither chapter says "Midian" in the verses cited, both are Midianite individuals talking while at Sinai of returning to their homeland. Their homeland could very well have been a different part of Midian then where Sinai was. Genesis 25:4 gives Midian 5 sons, and Numbers 31:8 divides Midian between 5 kings at this time. (Speaking of Numbers 22, 25 and 31, how was Israel involved in a geo-political scenario that involved both Midian and Moab from the Sinai Peninsula?) Bill Cooper in After The Flood (A book this same Website supports) says in Appendix 1 that the Kenites descended from Midian's son Henoch, why he thinks that is still unclear to me.
But it could be explained other ways too. Like how when I go to Burlington, I've left Racine City but am still in Racine County. Josephus in Antiquities of The Jews Book 2 says Moses came to a City called Midian.
For dealing with what Paul said in Galatians 4:24-26, they cite a few ancient Greek sources that define Arabia in a way that includes the Sinai Peninsula. While I would concede that allows sufficient room for doubt, but it's clear the majority of Roman and Jewish references to Arabia clearly do not include it. Also in-context Paul is linking the mountain to Hagar and Ishmael, who were never located west of the Dead Sea/Edom.
The second article cites Josephus quoting Apion in against Apion as saying Sinai was "Between Egypt and Arabia" and says if Josephus disagreed with that he would have said so. Josephus had bigger concerns here then a geographical error. And we can't be sure what Apion meant given how Arabia clearly means different things in different references, either way Apion certainly doesn't agree with the other sources they care so much about that defines Arabia broadly enough to put Sinai within it.
Overall Josephus supports Sinai in Midian. That website is a little confused by what Jospehus means when he refers to Petra, and how that effects dating Josephus. Petra was the capital of the Nabatean Kingdom already before Rome conquered it. But that need not discredit it's overall point.
But either way Josephus doesn't settle the matter, I unlike most fellow Revised Chronologists think Josephus was wrong when he said the Queen of Sheba ruled Egypt. And I already said an antiquity for the traditional view proves nothing. I don't necessarily expect the correct view to have antiquity because eventually the Midianites became Pagans and Israel as a Kingdom never ruled where Sinai was.
The second article also mentions the Muslim origins of the Arabian Sinai theory to try and discredit it. I'm not so reactionary that I need to reject anything Muslims have ever thought just because their religion has a horrible theology. I think the Muslim view of the Desert of Paran is probably the correct one, as I argued for on my Prophecy Blog about the Wandering.
The first article likewise cites the traditional Sinai view derived placements of Paran, Kadesh Barnea and Seir to support their Sinai view. Jerome and Eusebius were Pre-Islamic non Arabic Christians who placed Paran is Arabia Desteria. Arabia Desteria is a far more precise Roman geographical term that can't be reinterpreted by citing the broadest possible meaning for Arabia. It refers specifically to the vast Arabian desert between the Nabatean Kingdom (Jordan) and Arabia Felix (Yemen). Meaning Saudi Arabia basically. And there is no proposed site for Sear that is east of the Gulf of Aqaba.
They argue that the Kadesh Barnea location suggested by Jabal El Lawz supporters to fit the eleven day journey statement would, since Barnea is also cited as a border of Israel, place all of Edom in Israel. They are overlooking that the Tribal Allotments of Joshua also gave Asher all of Phoenicia including Tyre and Zidon in Joshua 19:24-31, and the Trans-Jordan Tribes much of Ammon they never actually took. Israel was supposed to subject all these people but failed to, that is part of the theme of Judges.
The eleven days journey is also less of an issue if it's a more Northern Midianite mountain. And I often think our modern assumptions underestimate how far an Ancient could travel in a given time period, this effects my perspective on a number of things.
There is good reason to believe Teman is modern Ma'an. And the way Habakkuk 3:3 parallels Deuteronomy 33:2 has me thinking Seir was in Teman.
So Sinai being in Midian remains the only Biblically viable option.
Recently I've read some critics of the view, fellow believers who are critics of it and who support the traditional site (or at least a Sinai Peninsula view), not Atheists. Mainly two from the Idolphin website, Is Mt Sinai in Saudi Abrabia? and Problems with Mt Sinai in Saudi Arabia.
I'm not interested in addressing every criticism there, no one is perfect, and I'm very open to Sinai being not Jabal El Lawz but some other site in Midian or really anywhere in Arabia for reasons that will become clear later. The main reason for favoring this mountain over other Midianite candidates is that it's the tallest. 1, only Extra Biblical sources say Sinai was the tallest, 2, things change and others might have been taller in the past. I've recently developed an interest in Jabel al-Madhbah near Petra.
I've also been thinking, maybe Horeb and Sinai aren't the same mountain. They certainly must be near each other though.
Nor am I as interested in denying that the traditional site has antiquity to it, maybe even before Helena though we're pretty much dependent on her word that a tradition already existed.
One argument against the traditional site not addressed is the significance of Edom not letting the Israelites pass through their land in Numbers 20.
First of all if they were coming from the Sinai Peninsula they would not have been dependent on Edom to enter the Promised Land from the South. The Philistine lands at least were lands Edom wouldn't have ruled.
But second, Edom controlled everything between the Dead Sea and the Gulf of Aqaba, so if Israel couldn't pass through Edom how did they wind up east of the Jordan when the wandering was over? And if you're going to object that maybe Edom didn't always control all the way to the Gulf of Aqaba then you are only further undermining the significance of not being allowed to pass through Edom being such an inconvenience and a large part of why they were stuck in this wilderness for 40 years.
I also do not see the necessity of crossing the Red Sea in the traditional view, and it often overlaps with the ridiculous "Sea of Reeds" argument, which only even works as a pun in English, the Hebrew is Yam Suf. I've seen it claimed that Yam Suf refers specifically to the Gulf of Aqaba, but I'm not going to bet on that right now, but I know it includes that Gulf from references to Solomon's port on it in 1 Kings 9:26.
Also I personally have come to see the limited geography associated with the wandering even by Conruke and other Jabal El Lawz supporters as being pretty silly given this a 40 year wandering. Yet if they were stuck in Sinai you have no choice but to limit it, and that limitation is the reason we became so used to viewing it's scale as so small. Basically I think it's possible they wandered all over Arabia and Jordan. The narrative parts of Exodus-Deuteronomy are mostly about specific situations and I do not think are a complete record of 40 whole years at all. For a modern comparison, that is equivalent to from the Bicentennial, 1976, to this year (I'm writing this in late April 2016). From the last year of Ford to the last year of Obama. Also both World Wars happened in less then 40 years.
Arguing whether or not all of what we today call Sinai can be considered part of Egypt I would agree shouldn't be as big a deal. But their certainty it was not has one big unacknowledged problem, that the Wadi Al-Arish is by any descent scholar known to be the the "River of Egypt" often refereed to as a Border of what was Promised to Abraham. A few uninformed commentators will act like that is the Nile, but that idea is obviously absurd, clearly Egypt's heart was not it's border with Israel.
The allotments of Ezekiel 40-48 make clear the Sinai Peninsula was not part of what God promised to Israel.
They do not deny that Midian refers to land in North Western Saudi Arabia east of the Gulf of Aqaba. But make all kinds of convoluted arguments to justify saying Jetho was a Priest East of Aqaba but his flocks were west of it. His argument about Shepherds sometimes traveling long distances to tend their flocks is valid, in the modern world, and maybe in the ancient world, but that a Midanianite Priest wold have his flocks on effectively a different continent is ridiculous.
The first article attempts to use Exodus 18 and Numbers 10 to Prove Sinai was outside Midian. Neither chapter says "Midian" in the verses cited, both are Midianite individuals talking while at Sinai of returning to their homeland. Their homeland could very well have been a different part of Midian then where Sinai was. Genesis 25:4 gives Midian 5 sons, and Numbers 31:8 divides Midian between 5 kings at this time. (Speaking of Numbers 22, 25 and 31, how was Israel involved in a geo-political scenario that involved both Midian and Moab from the Sinai Peninsula?) Bill Cooper in After The Flood (A book this same Website supports) says in Appendix 1 that the Kenites descended from Midian's son Henoch, why he thinks that is still unclear to me.
But it could be explained other ways too. Like how when I go to Burlington, I've left Racine City but am still in Racine County. Josephus in Antiquities of The Jews Book 2 says Moses came to a City called Midian.
For dealing with what Paul said in Galatians 4:24-26, they cite a few ancient Greek sources that define Arabia in a way that includes the Sinai Peninsula. While I would concede that allows sufficient room for doubt, but it's clear the majority of Roman and Jewish references to Arabia clearly do not include it. Also in-context Paul is linking the mountain to Hagar and Ishmael, who were never located west of the Dead Sea/Edom.
The second article cites Josephus quoting Apion in against Apion as saying Sinai was "Between Egypt and Arabia" and says if Josephus disagreed with that he would have said so. Josephus had bigger concerns here then a geographical error. And we can't be sure what Apion meant given how Arabia clearly means different things in different references, either way Apion certainly doesn't agree with the other sources they care so much about that defines Arabia broadly enough to put Sinai within it.
Overall Josephus supports Sinai in Midian. That website is a little confused by what Jospehus means when he refers to Petra, and how that effects dating Josephus. Petra was the capital of the Nabatean Kingdom already before Rome conquered it. But that need not discredit it's overall point.
But either way Josephus doesn't settle the matter, I unlike most fellow Revised Chronologists think Josephus was wrong when he said the Queen of Sheba ruled Egypt. And I already said an antiquity for the traditional view proves nothing. I don't necessarily expect the correct view to have antiquity because eventually the Midianites became Pagans and Israel as a Kingdom never ruled where Sinai was.
The second article also mentions the Muslim origins of the Arabian Sinai theory to try and discredit it. I'm not so reactionary that I need to reject anything Muslims have ever thought just because their religion has a horrible theology. I think the Muslim view of the Desert of Paran is probably the correct one, as I argued for on my Prophecy Blog about the Wandering.
The first article likewise cites the traditional Sinai view derived placements of Paran, Kadesh Barnea and Seir to support their Sinai view. Jerome and Eusebius were Pre-Islamic non Arabic Christians who placed Paran is Arabia Desteria. Arabia Desteria is a far more precise Roman geographical term that can't be reinterpreted by citing the broadest possible meaning for Arabia. It refers specifically to the vast Arabian desert between the Nabatean Kingdom (Jordan) and Arabia Felix (Yemen). Meaning Saudi Arabia basically. And there is no proposed site for Sear that is east of the Gulf of Aqaba.
They argue that the Kadesh Barnea location suggested by Jabal El Lawz supporters to fit the eleven day journey statement would, since Barnea is also cited as a border of Israel, place all of Edom in Israel. They are overlooking that the Tribal Allotments of Joshua also gave Asher all of Phoenicia including Tyre and Zidon in Joshua 19:24-31, and the Trans-Jordan Tribes much of Ammon they never actually took. Israel was supposed to subject all these people but failed to, that is part of the theme of Judges.
The eleven days journey is also less of an issue if it's a more Northern Midianite mountain. And I often think our modern assumptions underestimate how far an Ancient could travel in a given time period, this effects my perspective on a number of things.
There is good reason to believe Teman is modern Ma'an. And the way Habakkuk 3:3 parallels Deuteronomy 33:2 has me thinking Seir was in Teman.
So Sinai being in Midian remains the only Biblically viable option.
Friday, April 1, 2016
Did the Magi/Wise Men really come from Persia/Parthia?
I've spent a lot of time on my Prophesy Blog playing up the Biblical significance of Persia, Media and Parthia. So perhaps nothing is more shocking then to see me of all people argue for removing them from this Biblical theme. And I've in the past supported Chuck Missler's the Magi were taught by Daniel conjecture, that depends on them coming from Persia. But I've rethought much of this.
All of the stars rise in the East like the sun does, so saying they observed the Star of Bethlehem rising in the east I don't consider a clue to where they came from. Likewise them coming to Jerusalem from the East could just mean they entered through an Eastern gate. Now the location I'm going to suggest can be described as East of Jerusalem and Judea, but that's not necessarily the first or even primary geographical direction one is likely to use describing it's relationship to Judah.
Magi (translated Wise Men in the KJV) gets used as a proper name for a specific priesthood that is usually refereed to as Median in origin. But the word is only in that exact form once of all the times it's used in Matthew 2, and it's used elsewhere in the New Testament like in Acts 8 and 13 to refer to Samaritan and Jewish miracle workers, no one connects either of those individuals to Persia, Josephus also uses the word of certain Jews. The word Mage comes from the same term. In Ancient Greek texts it in time simply became their standard word for Magician in-spite of being non-Greek in origin. The following is copied form Wikipedia.
Wikipedia is of course not always up to do date on how we now know the Median Magi were originally enemies of the Zoroastrian religion, they worshiped Mithra, they were not inclined toward Monotheism.
Isaiah 60:6 is often taken by scholars as being connected to the visit of the Magi because it refers to Gold and Incense/Frankincense, (in fact this verse is why they're often depicted riding Camels, Camels aren't mentioned in Matthew 2). The ultimate fulfillment is clearly about the Messianic Kingdom (either the Millennium or New Jerusalem or both) but it's believed that the visit of the Magi at Jesus Birth serves as a lesser near fulfillment, the Myrrh isn't in the final fulfillment because it represents His Death and Burial which is in the past by that point.
But when suggesting this connection it's often forgotten that specific nations are named there.
Indeed history shows that the various nations of Ancient Yemen including the Sabaeans were the leading exporters of Frankincense and Myrrh, so to First Century readers that's possibly the first place they'd think of reading Matthew's account. And Gold we know could be found in this region because that's where Ophir was. The Ancient Kingdom of Saba continued to exist till 275 AD.
Tony Maalouf argues the Magi were from Arabia in "Were the Magi From Persia or Arabia?", Bibliotheca Sacra, 156 (October 1999), 423-42. The earliest report of the magi's place of origin is found in Justin Martyr, and he identifies them as Arabians (Dialogue With Trypho, 77). Clement of Rome refers to Arabia as "the East" and associates the region with frankincense and myrrh while addressing a context other than Matthew 2 (First Clement, 25).
Christianity is believed to have come to this region as early as 70-135 AD among Jews who fled the Roman destruction of Jerusalem.
From around 275-570 AD various calamities reshaped ancient Yemen among them were the conquests of the Himyar and the collapse of the Ma'rib Dam, that caused many Qahtanite/Joktanite Arabic tribes of Yemen to migrate North to Jordan and Syria. Among these were the Tanukhids from whom came the Christian Queen Mavia(Māwiyya). And the Gassanids who formed a Christian Kingdom that controlled modern Jordan and much of modern Syria and the Golan Heights. And the Lahkmids who formed a Christian Kingdom in modern Iraq west of the Euphrates.
All in territory that was Biblically Ishmaelite, which probably explains why Mavia was mistakenly called an Ishmaelite in some Byzantine sources. Some of the Ishmaelites (mainly of Kedar/Qedar) possibly began migrating south after the fall of the Nabatean kingdom during the reign of Trajan.
All of this further backs up that the Queen of Sheba must have been a Queen in Arabia not Africa.
The Koran in Sura 2:62 refers to those who already in some way believed in "Allah" before Muhammad, and were distinct from the pagan polytheists. While most such references refer to only two groups, Jews and Christians, this one refers to three groups, those and the Sabeans. I don't think Himyarite Jews are what is meant, in fact I think most of Muhammad's references to Jews had primarily Himyar and Yathrib in mind, especially the more Anti-Semitic verses, those were the Jews that he fought wars with. But I can't entirely rule them out either.
Jesus mentions the Queen of Sheba as an example of a Gentile who was saved. Many extra-Biblical traditions say that results in a conversion of her entire Kingdom. Maybe there is more truth to that then we thought.
The surviving Kings Lists of Sheba do not take us all the way back to Solomon's time. But only to 755 or 750 BC. This also seems to contradict certain traditions (mentioned in the Joktan link) that imply after king Phar'an the Kingdom was ruled only by Queens, (some of those look to me like they could be more feminine then our biases assume, but many are clearly masculine). At face value those traditions imply the Queen who visited Solomon was the last. But I have trouble seeing 60 Queens reigning in just the time from Reu to Solomon. So perhaps 755-750 BC marks when the Matriarchy was supplanted by a patriarchy.
According to one version of the Kings List, the King at the time Jesus was born was Yadail Darih II, who reigned from 10 BC-10 AD.
But since we've discussed the subject of Sheba's relationship to matriarchy. I feel like also pointing out that Matthew doesn't really tell us the gender of the Magi.
[Since I originally made this post the dates have been removed from the Wikipedia page for the Kings Lists of Sheba and Himyar]
All of the stars rise in the East like the sun does, so saying they observed the Star of Bethlehem rising in the east I don't consider a clue to where they came from. Likewise them coming to Jerusalem from the East could just mean they entered through an Eastern gate. Now the location I'm going to suggest can be described as East of Jerusalem and Judea, but that's not necessarily the first or even primary geographical direction one is likely to use describing it's relationship to Judah.
Magi (translated Wise Men in the KJV) gets used as a proper name for a specific priesthood that is usually refereed to as Median in origin. But the word is only in that exact form once of all the times it's used in Matthew 2, and it's used elsewhere in the New Testament like in Acts 8 and 13 to refer to Samaritan and Jewish miracle workers, no one connects either of those individuals to Persia, Josephus also uses the word of certain Jews. The word Mage comes from the same term. In Ancient Greek texts it in time simply became their standard word for Magician in-spite of being non-Greek in origin. The following is copied form Wikipedia.
According to Robert Charles Zaehner, in other accounts, "we hear of Magi not only in Persia, Parthia, Bactria, Chorasmia, Aria, Media, and among the Sakas, but also in non-Iranian lands like Samaria, Ethiopia, and Egypt. Their influence was also widespread throughout Asia Minor. It is, therefore, quite likely that the sacerdotal caste of the Magi was distinct from the Median tribe of the same name."
Zaehner, Robert Charles (1961), The Dawn and Twilight of Zoroastrianism, New York: MacMillan, p. 163.Also in Jeremiah 39, Rabmag is clearly used of a Babylonian office.
Wikipedia is of course not always up to do date on how we now know the Median Magi were originally enemies of the Zoroastrian religion, they worshiped Mithra, they were not inclined toward Monotheism.
Isaiah 60:6 is often taken by scholars as being connected to the visit of the Magi because it refers to Gold and Incense/Frankincense, (in fact this verse is why they're often depicted riding Camels, Camels aren't mentioned in Matthew 2). The ultimate fulfillment is clearly about the Messianic Kingdom (either the Millennium or New Jerusalem or both) but it's believed that the visit of the Magi at Jesus Birth serves as a lesser near fulfillment, the Myrrh isn't in the final fulfillment because it represents His Death and Burial which is in the past by that point.
But when suggesting this connection it's often forgotten that specific nations are named there.
The multitude of camels shall cover thee, the dromedaries of Midian and Ephah; all they from Sheba shall come: they shall bring gold and incense; and they shall show forth the praises of Yahuah.All names linked to Arabia, but the big one is Sheba, indeed the visit of the Queen of Sheba to Solomon is also thought of as connected to this since Solomon is also a type of the Messianic Kingdom. Psalm 72 also further seems to back up Sheba playing this role. Jeremiah 6:20 is also an interesting reference. Genesis 10:30 refers to Mount Sephar, a location in Yemen where Joktan's family settled, as a Mount of the East.
Indeed history shows that the various nations of Ancient Yemen including the Sabaeans were the leading exporters of Frankincense and Myrrh, so to First Century readers that's possibly the first place they'd think of reading Matthew's account. And Gold we know could be found in this region because that's where Ophir was. The Ancient Kingdom of Saba continued to exist till 275 AD.
Tony Maalouf argues the Magi were from Arabia in "Were the Magi From Persia or Arabia?", Bibliotheca Sacra, 156 (October 1999), 423-42. The earliest report of the magi's place of origin is found in Justin Martyr, and he identifies them as Arabians (Dialogue With Trypho, 77). Clement of Rome refers to Arabia as "the East" and associates the region with frankincense and myrrh while addressing a context other than Matthew 2 (First Clement, 25).
Christianity is believed to have come to this region as early as 70-135 AD among Jews who fled the Roman destruction of Jerusalem.
From around 275-570 AD various calamities reshaped ancient Yemen among them were the conquests of the Himyar and the collapse of the Ma'rib Dam, that caused many Qahtanite/Joktanite Arabic tribes of Yemen to migrate North to Jordan and Syria. Among these were the Tanukhids from whom came the Christian Queen Mavia(Māwiyya). And the Gassanids who formed a Christian Kingdom that controlled modern Jordan and much of modern Syria and the Golan Heights. And the Lahkmids who formed a Christian Kingdom in modern Iraq west of the Euphrates.
All in territory that was Biblically Ishmaelite, which probably explains why Mavia was mistakenly called an Ishmaelite in some Byzantine sources. Some of the Ishmaelites (mainly of Kedar/Qedar) possibly began migrating south after the fall of the Nabatean kingdom during the reign of Trajan.
All of this further backs up that the Queen of Sheba must have been a Queen in Arabia not Africa.
The Koran in Sura 2:62 refers to those who already in some way believed in "Allah" before Muhammad, and were distinct from the pagan polytheists. While most such references refer to only two groups, Jews and Christians, this one refers to three groups, those and the Sabeans. I don't think Himyarite Jews are what is meant, in fact I think most of Muhammad's references to Jews had primarily Himyar and Yathrib in mind, especially the more Anti-Semitic verses, those were the Jews that he fought wars with. But I can't entirely rule them out either.
Jesus mentions the Queen of Sheba as an example of a Gentile who was saved. Many extra-Biblical traditions say that results in a conversion of her entire Kingdom. Maybe there is more truth to that then we thought.
The surviving Kings Lists of Sheba do not take us all the way back to Solomon's time. But only to 755 or 750 BC. This also seems to contradict certain traditions (mentioned in the Joktan link) that imply after king Phar'an the Kingdom was ruled only by Queens, (some of those look to me like they could be more feminine then our biases assume, but many are clearly masculine). At face value those traditions imply the Queen who visited Solomon was the last. But I have trouble seeing 60 Queens reigning in just the time from Reu to Solomon. So perhaps 755-750 BC marks when the Matriarchy was supplanted by a patriarchy.
According to one version of the Kings List, the King at the time Jesus was born was Yadail Darih II, who reigned from 10 BC-10 AD.
But since we've discussed the subject of Sheba's relationship to matriarchy. I feel like also pointing out that Matthew doesn't really tell us the gender of the Magi.
[Since I originally made this post the dates have been removed from the Wikipedia page for the Kings Lists of Sheba and Himyar]
Friday, April 25, 2014
Hatshepsut was not the Queen of Sheba
This is my most unique quality as a supporter of the basic Velikovsky model starting with Tuthmosis III as Shishak. I seem to be the lone voice in the wilderness on this particular pairing of beliefs.
If the Queen of Sheba was an Egyptian queen The Bible wouldn't have obscured that, it dealt with Solomon's interactions with Egypt unambiguously both before and after this. Also since Tuthmosis I must be the Pharaoh who's daughter Solomon married (Nefrubity is my hunch on that), Hatshepsut was her full blooded Sister. If this Queen was Solomon's sister in law that is a strange thing to overlook.
Shishak is Tuthmosis III, his invasion of Retenu that corresponds to Shishak's taking Jerusalem was in the first year of his sole reign (21st year total). Which means over 5 years earlier when Jeroboam fled to Egypt was while Hatshepsut was still alive.
The visit of the Queen of Sheba I believe is meant to be understood as taking place very near the events of the previous chapter, 1 Kings 9. Which opens about 24 years into Solomon's 40 year reign. Which means timing wise it's either before Tuthmosis II died or very early in Hatshepsut's reign. The reigning Pharaoh of Egypt is mentioned in the prior chapter, it might seem the Kings narrative isn't consistent with this being no longer the same Pharaoh who's daughter Solomon married, but I don't think that's a big deal. The Biblical authors I think weren't always concerned with distinguishing different Pharaohs. But a Pharaoh of Egypt they always refereed to as Pharaoh.
Hatsheput like other Egyptian Queens ruled as if she were a man. And the term Pharaoh that the Bible uses actually refers to the Royal Palace, so it's like saying "The White House". So I really would not expect The Bible to refer to Hatsheput any differently then it would a male Pharaoh.
The Punt expedition was in Hatsheput's Eight year. So it's too late.
Jesus calls her the "Queen of The South" in Matthew 12:42 and Luke 11:31. Daniel 11 is cited where the "King of The South" is consistently Egypt. So this correlation is the start of attempts to argue she was an Egyptian queen.
South in Biblical geography is south of Israel/Jerusalem, in the context of Alexander's successors only Ptolemy is south of Israel, and Egypt was the core of his Kingdom though not all of it. But without that context South by no means always means Egypt, and usually refers to further south then that. In Jesus' time I'm inclined to think South of anything Rome ruled might have been the context. And Rome ruled Egypt at that time.
The word translated South in Daniel 11 (Negev) isn't the only Hebrew word used to communicate the idea of the South, there at least three others. Jesus I believe was actually speaking the above quote in Hebrew, but we have no idea if he used the same word. And I argued in one Bible study that it's used of Egypt there only when the Ptolemies ruled the Negev desert.
Another Hebrew word for South is Teman, which is interesting since Temani is also a name used of Yemenite Jews, not unlike Germanic Jews being Ashkenazim after Ahskenaz ben Gomer. In fact there is an argument to be made for the name Yemen itself coming from Teman/Teyman. Espically given the tendency of Hebrew naming to treat the Y/I/J and T as interchangeable, examples Yeshua/Teshua, Yerekh/Terekh, and Judas/Thadeus. And another word for South used in Yamen, derived from Yam.
Velikovsky unintentionally argued once that Mount Sinai was in Yemen. What's interesting about that is Habbukah 3:3 is a verse that parallels the reference to Seir and Sinai in Deuteronomy 33, that possibly justifies using Teman as a name for where Sinai is.
Then Josephus (Antiquities of The Jews Book 8 Chapter 6 Section 5) is cited. I'll address why I think Josephus was mistaken on this later. But the point here is that while Josephus is a good source for history near contemporary to himself, before the Hellenistic era he screws many things up (including the Persian King Esther married). The farther back he goes the more he's basing his Extra-Biblical information on legends of questionable reliability. In fact this very section of Josephus is totally absurd and he admits dependence on Herodotus. He acts like Pharaoh was an actual name the Pharaoh's used like Caesar.
There are three Shebas in the Table of Nations, Two in Genesis 10 and another being Abrahamic (of Keturah). The two in Genesis 10 are one Hamitic/Cushite and the other Semitic/Joktanite. But in both I Kings 10 and II Chronicles 11 the Queen of Sheba narrative is linked to Ophir another Joktanite name. I think Bill Cooper's biggest mistakes in After The Flood's appendices are in how he dealt with the repeat names.
Serious Archaeologists all know that Sheba was the name of a Kingdom in southern Arabia, modern Yemen. ( Israel Finkelstein, Neil Asher Silberman, David and Solomon: In Search of the Bible's Sacred Kings and the Roots of the Western Tradition p. 167).
Do not think that the Ancient Yemenite kingdom who's capital was Ma'rib is called Sheba only because of a desire to put that Biblical identification on it. They are known by that name independent of Biblical or Judeo-Christian influences.
Res Gestae Divi Augusti paragraph 26.5, (a funeral inscription of Augustus).
They were a seafaring people and were known to have had significant trade with the Northeast African kingdom of Dʿmt, across the Red Sea in Somalia, Eritrea, the only other source of both frankincense and myrrh. But the desire to use that African connection to make Axum or Nubia part of what's defined as Sheba is horribly flawed, those kingdoms were no where near those coastal lands.
The Yemen region was a place many Jews fled to following the fall of the Northern and Southern Kingdoms in the 8th-6th centuries BC. The Lemba tribe used to live in Yemen according to their oral history.
Very early on in Church History the Gospel came to this region. Among those who became Christians were the Ghassanids, who later migrated north and became a significant Arab-Christian Kingdom in roughly modern Jordan.
The famous Arabic proverb “They were scattered like the people of Saba” refers to them and other tribes of the Yemen region leaving after the destruction of the Ma'rib Dam.
The ancient Nubian city of Saba (which was later renamed Meroe during the time of Cambyses) I feel probably got that name not from a Sheba but from Cush's son Seba/Sebah. In English that name looks very similar to Sheba, and they could also transliterate into African languages similarly, but in Hebrew they begin with a different letter. Isaiah 43 refers to "Seba and Ethipoia" after mentioning Egypt, in a context where by Seba it could mean a city or region in Ethiopia. And Ethipoia/Cush linked to Egypt in this way always means the Nubian civilization just to the south of Egypt.
Seba and Sheba are mentioned next to each other in the Messianic Kingdom Psalm 72 verse 10. "The kings of Tarshish and of the isles shall bring presents: the kings of Sheba and Seba shall offer gifts." The point here I think is nations that Israel's contact with was by Sea bringing gifts to The Messiah. Tarshish and it's isles (British isles) to the west, and Seba and Sheba are both through the Red Sea port, in that context Yemen or India could work for Sheba while Seba is Nubia.
The Cushite Sheba of Genesis 10 I believe settled in Ancient India where he was deified as Shiva and his father Ramaah as Rama an avatar of Vishnu. Rama and his wife Sita had two sons just like Ramaah. One of those sons was named Kush. So the Indian mythology has confused the genealogy over the ages, but I believe that's where Ramaah and his sons went.
The Sheba and Dedan of Keturah I think probably lived in northern Saudi Arabia like the other Keturite tribes. They are probably the Sabeans who are mentioned in Job.
I do believe the Ark of the Covenant came to Ethiopia. But the Menelik legend is propaganda created by the Christian Auxomite kings to give them a Biblical lineage. I believe Graham Hancock and Bob Cornuke's theory for how it got there. First being at Elephantine island from sometime after King Manasseh's reign to the time of Cambyses, then was on Tana Kirkos until the Auxomite Kingdom took it. The Menilik legend was invented by the Auxomite Kings as propaganda do give them a Biblical;y significant Royal lineage (making them Davidic kings). The Jews of Ethiopia do not believe that story at all.
The Arabic traditions of Balqis/Bilqis/Bilquis did exist in Pre-Islamic times (Mohammed didn't really come up with much of anything new) and so have good reason to be viewed as more ancient and valid then the purely invented Ethiopian legend. However the details of the Bilqis legend as presented in the Koran and other surviving Arabic sources do not seem credible. I would not bet on that actually being her original real name. But if I wrote any fiction based on this I'd probably use something like it.
I do believe Hatshepsut probably visited Solomon also. The Bible says many rulers came to visit Solomon and witness his Wisdom. The Queen of Sheba is singled out NOT because she's the most important by secular standards, but because she became a Saved individual. Which is why Jesus cited her as such alongside the "men of Nineveh" who believed the message of Jonah.
That's the biggest problem to me actually, Hatshepsut was a faithful worshiper of the Egyptian gods to the end, no evidence she responded to Solomon how the Queen of Sheba did.
Actually, back to Psalm 72. It's also called a Psalm of Solomon, because Solomon foreshadowed the Messianic Kingdom. So the Sheba and Sebah reference could show both Ethiopia and Sheba had rulers visit Solomon, but they were distinct from each other.
Strictly speaking, what we call the Nubian civilization was kind of born around 800 BC. During the Old and Middle Kingdom as well as early 18th Dynasty, the civilization in that region was Kerma. During the reign of Tuthmosis I Kerma was conquered by Egypt, and campaigns further south were carried out during the reign of Hatshepsut. So yes, the logic for saying Hatshepsut could be called a Queen of Ethiopia is justifiable.
I don't think the similarity between Make-Ra (A name of Hatshepsut) and Makeda (The name of the Queen of Sheba in the Ethiopian traditions) is entirely a coincidence. I think various Egyptian Jews, first at Elephantine and then later in Alexandria and the Onias colony (and maybe much later Coptic Christians), drew the same conclusion Velikovsky thinks they did, and began giving The Queen of Sheba that name (adjusting it to remove the pagan god). And this may have influenced Josephus who was very familiar with Alexandrian Jewish traditions.
I can't make up my mind if I feel the Punt expedition was her visit to Solomon. The arguments for it being synonymous with or part of Retenu (the Egyptian name for Canaan) are valid, but so are plenty of arguments for it being in the South. Maybe there was more then one land called Punt and "God's Land", after all the Egyptians believed in more then one god. Maybe even her specific Punt expedition was to more then one place.
The fact that Parahu and Ati (of the Punt expedition) are often refereed to as King and Queen is based on creative assumptions. Breasted translated Parahu's title as "Chief" and refereed to Ati only as his wife.
Velikovsky saw Parahu as being Paruah father of Jehosophat governor of Issachar from 1 Kings 4:17. Numbers 26:23 dealing with the offspring of Issachar says "Of the sons of Issachar after their families: of Tola, the family of the Tolaites: of Pua, the family of the Punites:" So maybe the Punite clan has something to do with where the name Punt came from.
But there are also Pre-Islamic Arabian legends that say the Sheba kingdom of Yemen once had a ruler named Phar’an or "Pharaoh" who annexed Ophir and Havilah. But after that King Sheba was ruled only by Women.
Genesis 10:30 referring to the sons of Joktan including Sheba, Ophir and Havilah settling near a mountain called Sephar. That mountain is Mount Zafar in the heart of Yemen, where the Capital of the Himyarite kingdom was. Also the Kingdom of Hadramaut came from Joktan's son Hazarmaveth.
The idea of Punt being the same as Sheba is suggested in Nicholas Clapp's book about Sheba.
Tuthmosis III had three mysteries foreign wives. Menhet, Menqi and Merti. All three seem to have been Semitic. Two are said to be West Semitic, the idea that they could be daughters of Solomon or Rehoboam or Jeroboam I find interesting. I have also read it suggested that one could have been from Sheba, and thus used to support the idea of Punt being Sheba.
Also, while this is mostly irrelevant to the actual study here. I feel like saying that I also disapprove of the desire to interpret Solomon and Sheba as Romantically and/or Sexually involved with each other. The Bible gives no hints of that, the fact that it nearly universally happens in Extra-Biblical expansions just speaks the problems society has with gender relations.
Update: A follow up I did about the Magi.
If the Queen of Sheba was an Egyptian queen The Bible wouldn't have obscured that, it dealt with Solomon's interactions with Egypt unambiguously both before and after this. Also since Tuthmosis I must be the Pharaoh who's daughter Solomon married (Nefrubity is my hunch on that), Hatshepsut was her full blooded Sister. If this Queen was Solomon's sister in law that is a strange thing to overlook.
Shishak is Tuthmosis III, his invasion of Retenu that corresponds to Shishak's taking Jerusalem was in the first year of his sole reign (21st year total). Which means over 5 years earlier when Jeroboam fled to Egypt was while Hatshepsut was still alive.
The visit of the Queen of Sheba I believe is meant to be understood as taking place very near the events of the previous chapter, 1 Kings 9. Which opens about 24 years into Solomon's 40 year reign. Which means timing wise it's either before Tuthmosis II died or very early in Hatshepsut's reign. The reigning Pharaoh of Egypt is mentioned in the prior chapter, it might seem the Kings narrative isn't consistent with this being no longer the same Pharaoh who's daughter Solomon married, but I don't think that's a big deal. The Biblical authors I think weren't always concerned with distinguishing different Pharaohs. But a Pharaoh of Egypt they always refereed to as Pharaoh.
Hatsheput like other Egyptian Queens ruled as if she were a man. And the term Pharaoh that the Bible uses actually refers to the Royal Palace, so it's like saying "The White House". So I really would not expect The Bible to refer to Hatsheput any differently then it would a male Pharaoh.
The Punt expedition was in Hatsheput's Eight year. So it's too late.
Jesus calls her the "Queen of The South" in Matthew 12:42 and Luke 11:31. Daniel 11 is cited where the "King of The South" is consistently Egypt. So this correlation is the start of attempts to argue she was an Egyptian queen.
South in Biblical geography is south of Israel/Jerusalem, in the context of Alexander's successors only Ptolemy is south of Israel, and Egypt was the core of his Kingdom though not all of it. But without that context South by no means always means Egypt, and usually refers to further south then that. In Jesus' time I'm inclined to think South of anything Rome ruled might have been the context. And Rome ruled Egypt at that time.
The word translated South in Daniel 11 (Negev) isn't the only Hebrew word used to communicate the idea of the South, there at least three others. Jesus I believe was actually speaking the above quote in Hebrew, but we have no idea if he used the same word. And I argued in one Bible study that it's used of Egypt there only when the Ptolemies ruled the Negev desert.
Another Hebrew word for South is Teman, which is interesting since Temani is also a name used of Yemenite Jews, not unlike Germanic Jews being Ashkenazim after Ahskenaz ben Gomer. In fact there is an argument to be made for the name Yemen itself coming from Teman/Teyman. Espically given the tendency of Hebrew naming to treat the Y/I/J and T as interchangeable, examples Yeshua/Teshua, Yerekh/Terekh, and Judas/Thadeus. And another word for South used in Yamen, derived from Yam.
Velikovsky unintentionally argued once that Mount Sinai was in Yemen. What's interesting about that is Habbukah 3:3 is a verse that parallels the reference to Seir and Sinai in Deuteronomy 33, that possibly justifies using Teman as a name for where Sinai is.
Then Josephus (Antiquities of The Jews Book 8 Chapter 6 Section 5) is cited. I'll address why I think Josephus was mistaken on this later. But the point here is that while Josephus is a good source for history near contemporary to himself, before the Hellenistic era he screws many things up (including the Persian King Esther married). The farther back he goes the more he's basing his Extra-Biblical information on legends of questionable reliability. In fact this very section of Josephus is totally absurd and he admits dependence on Herodotus. He acts like Pharaoh was an actual name the Pharaoh's used like Caesar.
There are three Shebas in the Table of Nations, Two in Genesis 10 and another being Abrahamic (of Keturah). The two in Genesis 10 are one Hamitic/Cushite and the other Semitic/Joktanite. But in both I Kings 10 and II Chronicles 11 the Queen of Sheba narrative is linked to Ophir another Joktanite name. I think Bill Cooper's biggest mistakes in After The Flood's appendices are in how he dealt with the repeat names.
Serious Archaeologists all know that Sheba was the name of a Kingdom in southern Arabia, modern Yemen. ( Israel Finkelstein, Neil Asher Silberman, David and Solomon: In Search of the Bible's Sacred Kings and the Roots of the Western Tradition p. 167).
Do not think that the Ancient Yemenite kingdom who's capital was Ma'rib is called Sheba only because of a desire to put that Biblical identification on it. They are known by that name independent of Biblical or Judeo-Christian influences.
Res Gestae Divi Augusti paragraph 26.5, (a funeral inscription of Augustus).
"By my command and under my auspices two armies were led at about the same time into Ethiopia and into Arabia, which is called the Blessed [?]. Great forces of each enemy people were slain in battle and several towns captured. In Ethiopia the advance reached the town of Nabata, which is close to Meroe; in Arabia the army penetrated as far as the territory of the Sabaeans and the town of Ma'rib."This reference could interestingly make Ma'rib as far South as Roman armies ever went.
They were a seafaring people and were known to have had significant trade with the Northeast African kingdom of Dʿmt, across the Red Sea in Somalia, Eritrea, the only other source of both frankincense and myrrh. But the desire to use that African connection to make Axum or Nubia part of what's defined as Sheba is horribly flawed, those kingdoms were no where near those coastal lands.
The Yemen region was a place many Jews fled to following the fall of the Northern and Southern Kingdoms in the 8th-6th centuries BC. The Lemba tribe used to live in Yemen according to their oral history.
Very early on in Church History the Gospel came to this region. Among those who became Christians were the Ghassanids, who later migrated north and became a significant Arab-Christian Kingdom in roughly modern Jordan.
The famous Arabic proverb “They were scattered like the people of Saba” refers to them and other tribes of the Yemen region leaving after the destruction of the Ma'rib Dam.
The ancient Nubian city of Saba (which was later renamed Meroe during the time of Cambyses) I feel probably got that name not from a Sheba but from Cush's son Seba/Sebah. In English that name looks very similar to Sheba, and they could also transliterate into African languages similarly, but in Hebrew they begin with a different letter. Isaiah 43 refers to "Seba and Ethipoia" after mentioning Egypt, in a context where by Seba it could mean a city or region in Ethiopia. And Ethipoia/Cush linked to Egypt in this way always means the Nubian civilization just to the south of Egypt.
Seba and Sheba are mentioned next to each other in the Messianic Kingdom Psalm 72 verse 10. "The kings of Tarshish and of the isles shall bring presents: the kings of Sheba and Seba shall offer gifts." The point here I think is nations that Israel's contact with was by Sea bringing gifts to The Messiah. Tarshish and it's isles (British isles) to the west, and Seba and Sheba are both through the Red Sea port, in that context Yemen or India could work for Sheba while Seba is Nubia.
The Cushite Sheba of Genesis 10 I believe settled in Ancient India where he was deified as Shiva and his father Ramaah as Rama an avatar of Vishnu. Rama and his wife Sita had two sons just like Ramaah. One of those sons was named Kush. So the Indian mythology has confused the genealogy over the ages, but I believe that's where Ramaah and his sons went.
The Sheba and Dedan of Keturah I think probably lived in northern Saudi Arabia like the other Keturite tribes. They are probably the Sabeans who are mentioned in Job.
I do believe the Ark of the Covenant came to Ethiopia. But the Menelik legend is propaganda created by the Christian Auxomite kings to give them a Biblical lineage. I believe Graham Hancock and Bob Cornuke's theory for how it got there. First being at Elephantine island from sometime after King Manasseh's reign to the time of Cambyses, then was on Tana Kirkos until the Auxomite Kingdom took it. The Menilik legend was invented by the Auxomite Kings as propaganda do give them a Biblical;y significant Royal lineage (making them Davidic kings). The Jews of Ethiopia do not believe that story at all.
The Arabic traditions of Balqis/Bilqis/Bilquis did exist in Pre-Islamic times (Mohammed didn't really come up with much of anything new) and so have good reason to be viewed as more ancient and valid then the purely invented Ethiopian legend. However the details of the Bilqis legend as presented in the Koran and other surviving Arabic sources do not seem credible. I would not bet on that actually being her original real name. But if I wrote any fiction based on this I'd probably use something like it.
I do believe Hatshepsut probably visited Solomon also. The Bible says many rulers came to visit Solomon and witness his Wisdom. The Queen of Sheba is singled out NOT because she's the most important by secular standards, but because she became a Saved individual. Which is why Jesus cited her as such alongside the "men of Nineveh" who believed the message of Jonah.
That's the biggest problem to me actually, Hatshepsut was a faithful worshiper of the Egyptian gods to the end, no evidence she responded to Solomon how the Queen of Sheba did.
Actually, back to Psalm 72. It's also called a Psalm of Solomon, because Solomon foreshadowed the Messianic Kingdom. So the Sheba and Sebah reference could show both Ethiopia and Sheba had rulers visit Solomon, but they were distinct from each other.
Strictly speaking, what we call the Nubian civilization was kind of born around 800 BC. During the Old and Middle Kingdom as well as early 18th Dynasty, the civilization in that region was Kerma. During the reign of Tuthmosis I Kerma was conquered by Egypt, and campaigns further south were carried out during the reign of Hatshepsut. So yes, the logic for saying Hatshepsut could be called a Queen of Ethiopia is justifiable.
I don't think the similarity between Make-Ra (A name of Hatshepsut) and Makeda (The name of the Queen of Sheba in the Ethiopian traditions) is entirely a coincidence. I think various Egyptian Jews, first at Elephantine and then later in Alexandria and the Onias colony (and maybe much later Coptic Christians), drew the same conclusion Velikovsky thinks they did, and began giving The Queen of Sheba that name (adjusting it to remove the pagan god). And this may have influenced Josephus who was very familiar with Alexandrian Jewish traditions.
I can't make up my mind if I feel the Punt expedition was her visit to Solomon. The arguments for it being synonymous with or part of Retenu (the Egyptian name for Canaan) are valid, but so are plenty of arguments for it being in the South. Maybe there was more then one land called Punt and "God's Land", after all the Egyptians believed in more then one god. Maybe even her specific Punt expedition was to more then one place.
The fact that Parahu and Ati (of the Punt expedition) are often refereed to as King and Queen is based on creative assumptions. Breasted translated Parahu's title as "Chief" and refereed to Ati only as his wife.
Velikovsky saw Parahu as being Paruah father of Jehosophat governor of Issachar from 1 Kings 4:17. Numbers 26:23 dealing with the offspring of Issachar says "Of the sons of Issachar after their families: of Tola, the family of the Tolaites: of Pua, the family of the Punites:" So maybe the Punite clan has something to do with where the name Punt came from.
But there are also Pre-Islamic Arabian legends that say the Sheba kingdom of Yemen once had a ruler named Phar’an or "Pharaoh" who annexed Ophir and Havilah. But after that King Sheba was ruled only by Women.
Genesis 10:30 referring to the sons of Joktan including Sheba, Ophir and Havilah settling near a mountain called Sephar. That mountain is Mount Zafar in the heart of Yemen, where the Capital of the Himyarite kingdom was. Also the Kingdom of Hadramaut came from Joktan's son Hazarmaveth.
The idea of Punt being the same as Sheba is suggested in Nicholas Clapp's book about Sheba.
Tuthmosis III had three mysteries foreign wives. Menhet, Menqi and Merti. All three seem to have been Semitic. Two are said to be West Semitic, the idea that they could be daughters of Solomon or Rehoboam or Jeroboam I find interesting. I have also read it suggested that one could have been from Sheba, and thus used to support the idea of Punt being Sheba.
Also, while this is mostly irrelevant to the actual study here. I feel like saying that I also disapprove of the desire to interpret Solomon and Sheba as Romantically and/or Sexually involved with each other. The Bible gives no hints of that, the fact that it nearly universally happens in Extra-Biblical expansions just speaks the problems society has with gender relations.
Update: A follow up I did about the Magi.
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